Ep #14 - Recruit to Retain in the Age of AI w/ Janice Litvin

Full Episode Transcript

This is the full recorded conversation from The Human Protocol Podcast, published by The Human Protocol Group. © 2026 The Human Protocol Group. Please link to and attribute the original episode when referencing this conversation.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (00:05.366)
AI might help us find the perfect resume, but only humans can recognize the perfect fit. The future of recruiting isn't about faster hiring. It is about deeper relationships. Welcome to The Human Protocol, the podcast about staying human while building the future with AI. And I'm your host, Mykel Salomon. Recruiting is changing faster than ever.

Janice Litvin (00:20.832)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (00:35.476)
AI can now write job posts, screen candidates, and predict performance. But it still can't predict potential. The question is no longer if AI will transform recruiting. It already has. The question is whether we'll remember to keep humanity at the center of it. Because technology can find talent, but only leaders.

Janice Litvin (00:52.674)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (01:03.906)
can make people stay. Today, I'm joined by Janice Litvin. Janice is a keynote speaker, author, and consultant in the area of resilience and recruiting. Her newest keynote, Recruit to Retain in the Age of AI, helps recruiting leaders ensure a strong recruiting function that entices and engages job seekers. Another key element is a strong recruiting brand

on social media. Today, Janice Lidving will share her top tips from 20 years in the technology recruiting field to help you. And welcome everybody and welcome Janice to the Human Protocol.

Janice Litvin (01:47.894)
Thank you for having me, Michael. I'm so happy to be here.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (01:51.326)
It is my absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Thanks for taking the time to talk to us today. And to kick things off, Janice, I would like to start with a question that I ask every single guest in the show, Which is, when we remove the LinkedIn bio, whatever the internet knows about Janice, who is Janice at her core?

Janice Litvin (02:18.006)
Wow, that's such a good question. Wow. Yeah, when you remove the facade, who's the real person? Well, there's a lot to say. First of all, I'm a dancer. I always wanted to be a professional dancer. And there was a moment in my life where I stopped my tech work and jumped into dance for a couple of years, because I thought like, if you're not doing what you're really passionate about, how are you gonna be happy? And I thought,

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (02:29.102)
Janice Litvin (02:48.076)
I can't, I was at that moment, I was a computer programmer. And after four years, I wasn't happy with the work. I liked the people around me. I liked the organization, but I wasn't that good at it. Even though I loved math and I love technology, computer programming is a unique skill for a unique type of brain. And I went into it partly because I loved technology, but also my mother was very strong-willed about

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (03:10.499)
Right.

Janice Litvin (03:17.452)
You've got to be able to have a job where you can earn and a woman in tech will always be able to earn. And so I went for it because I wanted to be independent, but I realized that that was not really a perfect fit. And I think a lot of people today, and this is really good for your emerging professionals, a lot of people today get into a field because of the influence that someone else had on them. And so what you...

One thing that I recommend people do is go deep within, you say, strip away the LinkedIn, find the person within, use the knowledge that you've gained, and then find what you love. For example, I never planned to become a recruiter. I never planned to become a professional speaker, yet those are two very large parts of my career, recruiting in the past, speaking now, but I'm now using that recruiting knowledge. But look what I was able to...

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (03:51.98)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Litvin (04:14.476)
put together because of my technology background. So I don't know if I answered your question.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (04:21.742)
You did, you did even more than I was expecting because it's a very good surprise. I had no idea you come from a computer programming background. I really had no idea. So it's very, very interesting that you tell us that. So thanks for sharing with us that. That's great to know. And Janice.

How do you really define the human connection, really in this time with AI, in recruiting? How do you see that happening and how do you see this to continue to be as an important topic for all of us as we move forward with AI?

Janice Litvin (05:10.176)
Well, first of all, let me say there's a lot to say here and you alluded to a lot of it in the introduction. We can't forget the power of human connection. We just can't forget that. Yes, AI is a very, very powerful tool. You and I talked a little bit beforehand about the things that we are doing with AI. AI sourcing tools, which is basically what AI and recruiting is all about.

can have some biases. I just read yet another article this weekend about built-in biases, because remember, humans are programming the AI criteria. So for example, let's take a really interesting and simple, but yet very important example. In technology, historically, men went into software engineering and women didn't. Thankfully, now,

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (05:47.267)
Mm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (05:52.163)
Right.

Janice Litvin (06:08.565)
There's a huge emphasis towards women in technology fields known by STEM, society. I mean...

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (06:14.542)
Science, technology, Engineering, math.

Janice Litvin (06:18.334)
engineering and math, yeah. And now they added A for arts, so STEAM or STEM. So I'm very grateful for that because when I was coming up, there weren't that many, there were a number of women where I was working, but there weren't, in the world of programming, there weren't that many. And so if a man who is in technology is coding the criteria for AI, by definition, they're going to,

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (06:31.757)
Ryan.

Janice Litvin (06:47.136)
have a leaning or a bias towards people from a certain college with a certain degree, maybe a certain age range or certain companies they've worked at. And they're going to sadly eliminate a huge percentage of the population. So it's very important to understand before a company purchases an AI based sourcing tool. And I'm guessing in the large enterprise that's built into the enterprise.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (07:16.856)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Litvin (07:16.876)
but it's very important to audit the sourcing part and make sure that there is no bias built in. And then as you inferred, the AI tool cannot sense the human connection two people have in an interview and what are the dreams and the fears and the feelings and that level of emotional intelligence.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (07:37.771)
Absolutely.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (07:46.05)
Yeah, totally agree with you and I think part of what I get from this and where I see this going as well, Janice, is really, I really believe that retention, right? Retention begins at the very first touch point, right? It is an extremely important task being a recruiter and trying to find talent because it's not only about getting the talent but about the talent and staying in the company.

Janice Litvin (08:01.664)
Yes.

Janice Litvin (08:15.648)
Yes.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (08:15.796)
and how important that is that that first conversation that happens between a recruiter and the professional, it really captures and embraces the company's and organization culture in a way that we feel that we are the right fit, right? And we are getting into the right place.

Janice Litvin (08:37.951)
Yes. And interestingly, I was coaching a young woman who just graduated from a top tier college as an AI engineer. And at one company who we all know, and so I won't say the name, she never spoke to a human being until the day of the first interview. Everything was automated. Now I understand the efficiency, but what impression does that leave on a candidate? And remember,

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (08:46.859)
Mmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (09:00.739)
Right.

Janice Litvin (09:04.865)
Candidates are interviewing companies as well as companies interviewing candidates. And so candidates are deciding, does the company care about me as a person? What is the culture? What is the emphasis on wellbeing? Or is it all about the efficiency?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (09:22.434)
And it's something that we don't talk a lot about it, which is we are also interviewing companies. We as professional, we should be trying to find that perfect fit, that organization that matches our, not only the skills, but our values as human beings. That is extremely important. And sometimes because people are so desperate and trying to find the best company to work with,

Janice Litvin (09:31.136)
Yeah.

Janice Litvin (09:43.798)
Yes.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (09:50.74)
we forget that it's also our responsibility to try to find that culture that embraces the best of us, right, which is important.

Janice Litvin (10:01.205)
Yes, yes, yeah, absolutely, yeah. And so from the very first, like you said, from the very first moment, candidates are getting a feeling about what kind of culture they're entering into.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (10:13.602)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (10:19.83)
Yeah, absolutely. It's really not only about who fits the job, right, but also finding those candidates that fits the company's mission, right, which is extremely important. We should not be only looking for the skills, but every organization has a mission, has a culture, and really the perfect fit is finding the candidate that

can get into that and embrace that culture.

Janice Litvin (10:52.405)
And some companies inadvertently hide that mission statement. The mission statement and the values should be communicated clearly for potential employees, for existing employees, and for customers. Because after all, we do business with people.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (11:00.398)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (11:04.878)
Hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (11:15.252)
Exactly. it's a, we still, we still, the tallying is still people, human beings. and that's

Janice Litvin (11:22.529)
Right, that's right. And people need to get along, you know?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (11:27.298)
people needs to get along. Exactly. And you probably have seen a lot in all your time as a professional, right, in the recruitment industry.

How do you see things today, Janice, from where we have been to where we are today? What are the things that you like about how AI may be helping in the recruitment process? And what are the things that you really don't like about what you're seeing today, with some companies maybe exaggerating and abusing AI as part of the recruitment processes?

Janice Litvin (12:08.319)
Well, know, the Gen Z and many people want to feel a purpose, their own mission. How does my work that you're hiring me to do fit into the mission of the company? Is there a match between my values and the company's values? Do I have a reason to care? Earlier I talked about finding your passion for your work.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (12:17.687)
Mm.

Janice Litvin (12:37.269)
That passion has to extend to the overall company. We talked about the team and the hiring manager, but the whole company's culture has to fit. Does this company care about wellbeing? Do they care about the world around them? To what degree are they helping the people who are not so fortunate as us? What are they doing for the community? And how are they supporting employees in that mission?

Some companies give people time off to do charity work, whether it's packing lunches or supplies for teachers or cleaning up a ditch or cleaning up a beach. Here in California, they have these beach cleanup days. So to what degree do you do the heart walk together? This month is breast cancer awareness.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (13:10.187)
Mm-hmm

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (13:18.636)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (13:26.274)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Litvin (13:33.419)
Does everybody get together and support breast cancer research? And so those are some of the things that people are looking for in a company.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (13:43.018)
It's so interesting because you see the generational kind of, not gap, but difference, right? Generations and Gen Z especially, they have different needs. They're looking for more belonging, well-being, right? They're not just looking for a paycheck. They're looking to be part of a mission, to feel part of something that is sometimes even bigger than themselves.

Janice Litvin (13:50.559)
Yes.

Janice Litvin (13:59.723)
Yes.

Janice Litvin (14:04.68)
Exactly.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (14:11.244)
With other generations in the past, we were perfectly good with just a paycheck and a steady job. But Gen Z is looking for more. Right? And that's what kind of, yeah.

Janice Litvin (14:20.681)
Right. I mean, I remember, yeah, I'm sorry. I remember when my mother used to say many years ago, you don't have to like your job. You just have to do your job. You will like going to the bank on Fridays because back then you had to actually go to the bank with your paycheck.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (14:33.128)
Look at that. Look at that how things have changed and also human needs in all this conversation. It's just a different way of expectations, right? From what they expect from the job is so different than what people used to expect in the past.

Janice Litvin (14:58.249)
Not only that, the security about certain jobs has changed dramatically. I remember my father saying, go to work for the government. You'll never have to look for a job again. But now look what's happening.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (15:12.194)
The government used to be that place that if you get in, you will probably retire from it. That's if you choose to, of course, yes. That's not the case anymore. It really not. And it's funny also how that have changed and you just make me think right now on this that I wasn't even planning on thinking about. But it's just the nature of how...

Janice Litvin (15:16.321)
You're in. Yeah. If you choose to. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-mm.

Janice Litvin (15:37.311)
Yeah. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (15:41.804)
Not only we as humans, continue to evolve, but also the nature of how companies and organizations, are also changing and based on their company's missions and value, that's really how they run their businesses. Interesting.

Janice Litvin (16:01.77)
Yes.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (16:03.808)
So, Janice, back to the conversation, what are the things that you see today in the recruitment process with abuse of AI as part of it? How do you see that?

Janice Litvin (16:22.069)
Well, one thing I've been thinking about, and again, you alluded to this at the introduction, the idea of retention. When someone leaves a company, there are different estimates. One estimate I've read is that it costs 50 to 200 % of salary. Some people say three times salary to replace that person. Remember, there's a hole now because someone left and either the rest of the team has to pick up the slack and then they're gonna have burnout.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (16:30.604)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (16:49.196)
Right.

Janice Litvin (16:50.541)
or that work doesn't get done. And so retention has got to be at the forefront of all recruiting efforts. That means, as we already discussed, the human connection at the very beginning and all the way through the process, the onboarding process is not just one day of filling out some forms. Those forms can in general be filled out before day one. When they get there on day one,

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (17:09.026)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (17:16.524)
Right.

Janice Litvin (17:18.389)
there should be a lot of bonding and connecting. The CEO, if possible, should either record a personalized video for that group, or if possible, drop by and say, welcome to our company. We're really excited to have you. Today, you're going to meet with some of your team members and make sure that every person that's onboarding has a lunch partner, not just from the onboarding group.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (17:31.382)
and welcome.

Janice Litvin (17:46.581)
but from someone from their team that's joining them for lunch so they can really start to fit in and get to know life at this company. And then onboarding connects all talking about retention and onboarding. Onboarding goes to after day one on day 30, there should be a check-in at least with the hiring manager or maybe someone from HR. Do you have any questions? How's it going?

Is your manager providing the resources and tools you need to be successful? Or did the manager just throw you to the wolves and say, luck? Do you have a mentor assigned to you from within the team? Do you have a career mentor from outside your team? Do you know about our employee resource groups known as ERGs? Some companies have 10 or 20. Some companies have three.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (18:32.824)
Bye.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (18:37.742)
Hmm.

Janice Litvin (18:41.729)
For those of your listeners who don't know, an ERG is a wonderful place to bond with people like yourself. There are women ERGs, there are Latina ERGs, Black ERGs, Tech ERGs, LGBTQ ERGs, where people bond and discuss issues or things that they can do to improve the lives of the people around them.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (19:06.989)
Mm.

Janice Litvin (19:07.273)
And those are really critical. And I've worked with a number of ERGs in the last couple of years.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (19:13.634)
That's very interesting and I think as you just said, it adds value not only to the organization that they belong to, but also in their personal lives, right? It can have an impact on their neighborhoods, on their society as well.

Janice Litvin (19:25.832)
Absolutely.

Janice Litvin (19:34.49)
yeah, in a big way, in a big way. And in terms of career development, which you and I were chatting about before, a lot of young people do not learn in college how to progress in their careers. They don't know how to find a coach that can help them with that. One would assume their manager is going to do that, but not every manager is doing that. And so having a mentor outside the team,

that can help guide people in their careers and how to improve so that they're progressing in their career from a career standpoint, not just tech or whatever their job title is, but grooming them for promotions or other opportunities inside the company. That to me is one of the other values of an ERG or having a mentor outside the team. Yes.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (20:25.568)
It's taking care of the human beings, right? As a whole, which a lot of organizations, they forget today or they just don't even care, right? But it is so important because that's what also add quality of life to our life. It's when you have your organization or the company that you work for really caring about the people in a way that it's personal and that they...

that they feel like they belong.

Janice Litvin (20:58.173)
Yes, and I feel that way very much about wellbeing programs with all the literature and all the events and all the books about wellbeing, how it impacts culture. There are still companies that don't care about wellbeing. But let me tell you something, health is also about mental health. It's not just about physical health and wellbeing has a five.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (21:17.996)
Yeah. Yeah.

Janice Litvin (21:28.199)
or in some cases, spokes to it, financial wellbeing, social, community, things that we've already talked about. So wellbeing has got to be woven in to the culture of a company.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (21:33.07)
pillars right?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (21:42.316)
I agree. It's something like, as you said, we don't see people talking a lot today. Because I see a lot of people just focus on well-being is just how you look, right? But not a lot of how you feel, right? And I think that's where the conversation is missing today. And that's where mental health, it is more and more important. And we're seeing more and more issues.

Janice Litvin (22:01.173)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (22:10.028)
because we are not paying a lot of attention to that in our.

Janice Litvin (22:13.771)
Well, yeah, that brings up a very interesting point I like to make in one of my keynotes about culture. And that is, if you notice something seems off about a teammate or especially for the manager, you've got to address it. You can't sweep it under the carpet and just pretend, they're just having a bad day. I mean, yes, we all have a bad day. But if that bad day stretches into a week or two,

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (22:41.848)
Multiple bad days. Yeah. Yeah.

Janice Litvin (22:43.303)
multiple bad days in a row, something's going on. Now it could be that someone at home is sick. It could be that they had to take in an elderly relative that is not well. There could be so many things. It could be a partner got laid off or it could be something bothering them about the job. So that constant communication has to be happening. And I, at some point in the discussion I'll tell you about my favorite boss that I ever had.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (23:11.342)
It's, you know, there's probably gonna be some managers and leaders that are gonna be listening to this conversation and what you just said right there. It's a topic that I also feel passionate about because myself as a leader, I'm always looking to improve my people's, know, my direct reports and my people's life in a way that I can help them to succeed, right?

The way I lead is I tell my people that I'm here to help them to succeed, right? I'm really that person that is going to help them drive it to whatever we need to go. When it's difficult sometimes, Janice is, and I'm curious to see what your recommendation or advice would be for this. How would you approach those people that is hard to get something out from them?

You know what I mean? Like, you know there's something going on and having those conversations, you're still not able to get what you need from them. Have you had that problem in the past?

Janice Litvin (24:18.957)
Yes, and what I would recommend in a case like that is there's some kind of block. There's some kind of blockage for whatever reason. There could be so many reasons. And so in that case, I recommend they talk to someone else. And I make suggestions. You know, I have a colleague who's another manager down the hall, and he's had a lot of luck talking to people who are

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (24:24.527)
Mm. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (24:34.382)
Mmm.

Janice Litvin (24:46.751)
struggling with XYZ, whatever it is. And so a lot of times we help each other as people should and could. And so I'm gonna have my colleague and switch the gender. Maybe there's a gender bias built in there. So if it's a woman and you're a male manager, I'm gonna have my colleague Susan down the hall chat with you. And sometimes we can tell something to someone else.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (24:48.738)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (24:54.626)
That's a very good advice, right?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (25:09.87)
Talk to them. Yeah.

Janice Litvin (25:14.517)
that we can't tell to our own manager. It's just like a parent-child relationship. Sometimes there's things a child doesn't wanna tell a parent, but they'll tell a grandmother or an aunt or a family friend because they're uncomfortable for whatever reason. And with children, it can be whatever. And so it's similar because remember, a manager-employee relationship is similar to a parent-child relationship.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (25:39.882)
Absolutely, yes. And it's about finding what that safe space means for that person.

Janice Litvin (25:46.781)
Yes, yes, yeah, you opened up a big can of worms there. Psychological safety, people need to feel safe to communicate. know, that brings up a whole nother can of worms, which is talking about introverts. And so if you're holding a meeting and the same people are always speaking up, which is fine, you've got to draw out the introverts because they have something to say just because they're shy.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (25:50.862)
Yeah. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (26:09.23)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (26:16.066)
That doesn't mean that they don't have something to say. Yeah.

Janice Litvin (26:16.233)
or they, that doesn't mean that they're not highly intelligent and have something important to add. So how about saying, hey, Joe, we haven't heard much from you today. What are your thoughts about and be very specific? And if they're still too embarrassed, then take them aside and say, you know, I understand you're somewhat introverted, but I really value your opinion. I really like to know what you think about XYZ.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (26:39.35)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And that's a perfect way to make people feel valued and heard. Right.

Janice Litvin (26:47.945)
Well, yes and hopefully, and I know everybody's busy these days, but hopefully a manager is spending one-on-one time with every single person on the team, whether it's a Monday morning check-in via text. I know everybody likes to text. I mean, I believe in face-to-face communication, but I know people like to text. How's it going today? Do you need anything? Do you want to go to lunch? Do you want to take a walk? How are you doing?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (27:03.778)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Litvin (27:17.673)
Now I recommend people go to lunch, but you know, everybody's busy and people like to eat lunch at their desk. Although I do recommend people get away from their desk at least 30 minutes or an hour and get outside and get some sunshine, but at least checking in with people one-on-one.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (27:30.222)
Ryan.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (27:34.318)
Yeah, it's important. It's what's still going to continue to keep humans connected with each other, especially in that very special relationship, which is a working relationship, right? Which is not people coming to work because they are friends. It's people need to come to work to achieve shared goals, right? And as a leader,

You need to try to find also motivate your people to try to accomplish those goals together. And that takes not only the professional side of things, but also working on the person that that person is.

Janice Litvin (28:14.101)
Yeah. And help connect to their intrinsic motivators.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (28:20.152)
Yeah, because that's when then the magic will happen and people will feel motivated to really go above and beyond and feel part of the mission in a way.

Janice Litvin (28:33.141)
Yes, yeah, absolutely, yes.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (28:35.436)
Yeah, interesting. Interesting. I love love touching on that topic. I'm glad that we went there without planning. Janice, back to the guidance message and principle of this podcast, which is. This whole future and where humanity is going with AI, right, and and I'm a technologist.

Janice Litvin (28:42.217)
Yeah, me too. Yeah, me too.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (29:03.766)
and you started also your career as a computer programmer. So you've been in technology also part of your life. So we appreciate technology, right? We all do. And in times where people are scared of AI taking their jobs, I fear something else, something bigger than that, which is AI taking our humanity, right?

Janice Litvin (29:11.69)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (29:33.902)
And that's the part that I fear because while there are some companies that I feel like they are implementing AI the right way, I also read the news a lot and every day there are news about laying off and companies just replacing the whole department. And that's what creates this anxiety in people. And what I really fear is as leaders, some of us not

Janice Litvin (29:34.315)
rest.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (30:03.832)
doing enough to keep our humanity and our people in the middle of this conversation. And I'm curious to see and hear from you. How do you see this and how do you feel about it?

Janice Litvin (30:22.015)
You know, it's funny. I remember when the IBM PC first came out. And at that time I was doing consulting. In fact, that's why I, well, I started the consulting company because I wanted to do work on my own and the timing was right because the IBM PC had come out. And now everybody in America, just about had a PC on their desk. I don't know if you remember the big PC, the big one.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (30:47.212)
The big ones. Yeah, right. Yes, I remember.

Janice Litvin (30:49.631)
And people were afraid to turn it on. They were afraid they were gonna break it. And so I saw an opportunity and I realized that people, that fear comes from not knowing. And I realized that training people to use, to get the best out of that gray box on their desk and how they could prevent the fear of destroying things by having backups, et cetera, et cetera.

And so I think it's a similar, I feel it's a similar situation today. When AI first came out, there's a lot of fear. I think as we start to use and learn how to use the tools, some of the fear has dissipated, but companies need to remember that that's all it is. It's a tool. It's not a human being. Yes, it can replace some repetitive functions, but like we talked about earlier, it can't replace.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (31:36.076)
Right.

Janice Litvin (31:45.309)
the human part of our cognitive abilities. It can't replace the emotional connections and it can't replace the thinking in terms of where we need to be as people.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (31:47.373)
Ryan.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (31:59.63)
Right. And that's what I agree with you 100%. The part that I take a look at it and think about it as well, when we talk about in this conversation recruit to retain, right? The retain part of it. If someone is hired to do this job, right?

And that job is about to change because of AI. I've been thinking a lot about those cases where, where are people gonna find if their job changes because of AI, will they enjoy what they will be doing next? And how that may have an impact not only on that person, because may not enjoying what this new role or job is gonna be.

but also the retention part of this. And I've been thinking a lot about that because I don't think a lot of people talk about it today, but there may be cases that whatever this new role may become, people may not like it.

Janice Litvin (32:59.349)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Litvin (33:13.153)
Well, they might like it or they might not. And sometimes again, it's about learning more about it. I remember when my boss who I loved so much came to me one day, I was doing software consulting and he said, I think you should add training to your duties and you know, we'll adjust your other responsibilities. And I said, I thought to myself, well, that's not what I was hired to do, but have an open mind, I might love it.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (33:16.64)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (33:39.106)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Litvin (33:39.807)
Well, long story short, it led me to where I am today. And I turned out, it turned out that it was the perfect thing for me to be doing because I love people. And at that time I was helping people assuage their fears about using technology and teaching them things that opened up their mind about technology and all the things that they could do. And so if you open your mind to new possibilities, you might love the new responsibilities or you might not. It's up to the manager.

to number one, know, fit people where the company needs them, but also remember that there's a passion driving that person and you to get the best out of a person, you need to connect with that passion.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (34:22.592)
I see it, I see based on what you said right now, I see two important parts of this. One is the person as a person, what Gianni's advice is have an open mind, right? And having an open mind will always help you because sometimes we are humans, we are usually against changes, right?

Janice Litvin (34:45.535)
Yes.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (34:46.338)
We are reluctant to change, right? We want to do everything the way we think it should be or the way we have been doing. But sometimes because of changes, we discover new opportunities and changes may lead us to better places and maybe a place that it fulfill you more as a human being. So I totally agree with you and thank you for giving that advice because that's exactly what we need to is people embrace this with open mind. Roles may change, tasks may change.

but it's really what should not change is your desire to become a better human beings and maybe acquire more skills. And I think that in all this conversation, this is something that it will only add value to you as a professional. On the other side, what you just said as well, we as leaders, as managers, we need to make sure that we find the best place.

based on what the business need for our people to continue to develop and for our people to continue to fulfill them as human beings. So I think it's both sides, right? The manager needs to make sure that whatever the changes are coming, communicate it in a way that people continue to see themselves as having an opportunity in the organization.

Janice Litvin (36:06.591)
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (36:11.736)
Perfect, perfect. So let's get back to the main title of your keynote, right, which is recruit to retain. What does that mean in practice, Janice?

Janice Litvin (36:29.897)
Well, as we've been kind of touching upon this during this whole conversation, which I'm loving by the way, is recruiting is one thing and retention is another. And there are a lot of elements that go into retention in the way you treat people. First of all, making sure that the person is a fit for the company culturally and helping the person decide if the company is a fit for them. All the onboarding things we've talked about.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (36:32.31)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (36:36.45)
Thank you.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (36:50.094)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Litvin (36:56.395)
to make people feel a part of the team from the very beginning. Hiring for purpose and culture fit, not just technical skills. And that also alludes to the job description itself. Job descriptions historically were written very bland. A little bit about what the company did, what the duties and responsibilities were and what the background, but there was nothing human.

built into the job description.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (37:28.45)
Do they still matter today, Janne? Does really a job description does anything for what we're hiring for?

Janice Litvin (37:41.151)
Well, one would hope that it does. But here's another thing I've been thinking about. Recruiting is also about marketing. So recruiting is a sales and marketing job, which is a lot of people forget. Yes, a company can post ads on LinkedIn or Monster or iHire or one of the job boards. But again, what about the humans? And so I recommend that people

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (37:43.147)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (37:58.947)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (38:06.19)
Yeah.

Janice Litvin (38:09.841)
record little videos, little video one to many, like one to the audience, and one with members of the team. So I recommend that a hiring manager take one or two members of their team and have a conversation with them. Why do you like working for the company? What do you love about this particular team? What do you like to do?

What is some way we support people in their career growth? You know, what are some of the values that our company supports and get people and being open to letting people DM you on LinkedIn or however people want to communicate and let the HR team help support some of that communication. But people want to know who they're going to work for and what it's going to be like.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (38:40.216)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (39:03.022)
Yeah.

Janice Litvin (39:04.019)
What is life going to be like at this company? And the interview process helps some, but it's like dating. You don't get married after one or two dates, at least most people don't. There are still some cultures that do that, and that's fine for them. But I think dating should last a little more than one or two dates to decide if you're going to get married. And it's a similar relationship, and it's a similar process.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (39:09.326)
Right.

You're not.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (39:30.283)
It is.

Janice Litvin (39:31.711)
And so the best you can help people get to know you, the hiring manager in the company, the more valuable it'll be.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (39:40.204)
Yeah, I agree and for their retain.

Janice Litvin (39:41.727)
And all of that adds and all of that contributes to retention.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (39:45.77)
Absolutely. Because at the end of the day, people, just don't live bad jobs. They really live bad experiences.

Janice Litvin (39:54.497)
Yes, and bad managers, yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (39:56.854)
And yeah, exactly. And the manager leading that organization is the one that needs to make sure that it's creating the best culture, right, for their team and the best space where they can succeed. So it's it's an extremely important task. That's why when I talk to people that they don't know which way they want to go, if they want to continue as individual contributor or getting to leadership, I tell them.

Think about it that you are going to become a psychologist. Okay, part of part of your job. It's going to be Talking to people talking to your people and talking to your people listening listening listening and then you putting a lot of efforts on trying to build the best culture you can for people with different personalities and some time if you like myself and that I lead a global organization I have teams

in Europe, the US, in the Philippines. it's the emotional intelligence part of things comes into play more and more because you need to understand culture, the way people communicate expectations and needs. They're very different from country to country.

Janice Litvin (41:10.229)
You know, we haven't talked a lot about that. We haven't talked about the cross-cultural differences and there many. And in the United States and especially in California, there are many. And communication is different. And then there's the whole topic of neurodiversity. So I was leading a facilitated conversation about boundaries, setting healthy boundaries. And one woman stood up.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (41:22.377)
Absolutely. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (41:37.048)
Hmm.

Janice Litvin (41:40.171)
who is a first line manager who is from another Asian culture. And she said, I would never say no to a manager. And you know, I was brought up not to say no to my parents and I was never taught how to push back. So I never said no to anybody when I was a younger adult. And so learning how to communicate your needs is as important

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (41:55.884)
Right.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (42:01.858)
Right.

Janice Litvin (42:09.193)
as learning how to navigate an organization. And so if a manager is loading work on you and to the point where you're feeling heavy and you're working 12 hours a day, it's, and they may not realize they may not be that sharp in terms of workload. I mean, one would assume they know what they're doing, but some are not as sharp as others. And it's important to let them know they can't read your mind. You know, you would think they're on top of things, but some aren't.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (42:35.308)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (42:39.234)
Yeah. Right.

Janice Litvin (42:39.273)
Some are newer managers and they haven't been trained properly. And so it's important to push back and say, you know, I love working here and I love this new project you gave me and we need to offload some of these other, I can't possibly in an eight hour day, not to mention a 10 or 12 hour day, get all this done. So you and I together need to reprioritize this workload because my children never see me. That's not good.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (42:55.768)
Take everything. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (43:04.77)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Janice Litvin (43:07.361)
And I'm getting worn out mentally and emotionally.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (43:12.17)
And that's something, you know, that we all as leader, we need to try to avoid at all costs, right? Because it's real. And that mentality of workaholic, not everybody's workaholic. Not everybody expect the same. Not everybody has the same needs, the same expectation about the job. So it is important also as leaders to understand our part in the whole retention, right? Because we are the ones that are

Janice Litvin (43:21.567)
Very much so.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (43:42.104)
prioritizing, distributing the work among our team. And it is important to also understand, and that's when the psychology part of it come back to, we need to understand each of our people, what their capabilities are, what they can handle, and what they cannot.

Janice Litvin (44:02.2)
And, yes, and there are people who are very hard workers. I'm one of them. I assume you're one of them and grew up in a very, family culture of stoicism and hard work pays off and you've got to work hard. Some people forget to check in with themselves until it's too late. There are micro clues of burnout. There are little micro clues.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (44:10.338)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (44:18.253)
Yeah.

Janice Litvin (44:31.2)
And I wrote an article today on LinkedIn and I used a metaphor of the embers of a forest fire. Burnout is like an ember of a forest fire. These little bits of embers are flying around until suddenly a whole forest. Right, and then that person who's completely burned out has to take a disability leave because they're exhausted mentally. And so it's important that we check in with ourselves and it's important for our leaders to know what's going on as well.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (44:44.394)
until it's too late until you have a spark.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (45:02.188)
Yeah, it's also important to have those, you know, and I was talking to a friend the other day how important it is to have a health, kind of a health well-being check on a daily basis, meaning just disconnect even from 10, 15 minutes. Take a walk, right? Make sure that you get away from work and it will help you tremendously, right?

Janice Litvin (45:21.237)
Yes.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (45:31.916)
with going back to it with more energy than what you left.

Janice Litvin (45:36.434)
Yes, and it's surprising how a 10 minute break can refresh you.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (45:40.238)
Exactly. So it is extremely important to have that as part of our practices as we move along. Because the nature of the business, it's like probably we will continue to be doing more as you move along. Because with AI doing a bunch of the manual work, then we are probably going to be taking on more complex ones. So that's...

Janice Litvin (45:48.212)
Yes.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (46:10.188)
The volume may be less, but the complexity may increase. And that means you're putting, you know, and people don't talk a lot about it, but that's how I see it. The repetitive task may be going away, but what's gonna be left for us are more complex tasks that will require more from us.

Janice Litvin (46:30.24)
Absolutely, very well said. I sometimes I forget that part too, because that's the human element.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (46:38.036)
Absolutely. absolutely. And yeah, let's see. Let's see where all this is gonna end up with. But getting back to the whole recruitment process at Janice, what would you tell those AHR leaders and organization on things that they should do to kind of rehumanize their recruitment process in times of AI?

Right? Where do you see AI helping and where do you see that we really need to get back to basics and make sure that it's still the human as part of it?

Janice Litvin (47:25.13)
Well, first of all, particularly for HR, HR burns out too. And so that's kind of an aside that HR also needs to take care of themselves. I was just on a panel sponsored by a company called HR Advisor and their partner, about helping HR people not burn out. But you kind of summed it up a moment ago when you said, putting AI in its place.

Let AI do what it's good at, which is like you said, manual labor, the initial processing of thousands of resumes to the degree that you've done an audit and that you've removed any possible bias.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (47:56.258)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (48:07.79)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Litvin (48:09.756)
and then to as much as possible bring the human interaction back. It could be a loom video. Let's say one of the recruiters needs to communicate with a candidate and they've texted, but for whatever reason the person's not responding. Rather than wasting time trying to reach that person and missing each other with texts and whatever emails, send them a loom video or any kind of video.

Hey, Joe, I've been trying to reach you. I need to let you know that we'd like to schedule you next Monday at two. I need for you to confirm by the end of the day today. And of course AI can send out some of those messages, but the human human part is I need to tell you a little bit about the people you're going to meet. I need to prepare you for what to expect.

for this job, you applied for this job, but we see that you're also talented for this other related role. We'd like you to interview for both positions and here's why. Like create more of that cohesive overall relationship. It's about building relationships and connections.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (49:15.298)
Mmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (49:23.7)
It's about building relationships and connections. I've seen, know, LinkedIn, you from time to time, you see people that have been, for example, laid off, and they all say that the current job market is a wild west, right? People posting roles that they may not be hiring for, sending resumes, hundreds of job applications that

Janice Litvin (49:41.951)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (49:52.684)
They never receive an answer back. So it's a hard, tough market right there.

Janice Litvin (49:55.334)
yeah, that, yeah.

Yeah, that drives me crazy. That's not right. If somebody applies, at least your AI system should respond and say, we've received your resume. We're on it. If you don't hear back in 30 days, please reach out. And here's an email address.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (50:12.532)
If not, that process is broken, right? And imagine if that's the first step of getting to know the company, the trust is broken right there. You should not trust that company, right? If that part of the process is not working, I can only imagine the rest.

Janice Litvin (50:25.311)
Yeah.

Janice Litvin (50:33.044)
Well, that's the problem. You're making a bad first impression.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (50:36.142)
And those last for the most part. It's hard to overcome when trust is breached. It's hard. It's hard to overcome that.

Janice Litvin (50:39.27)
Yeah. Yeah.

Janice Litvin (50:47.176)
And communication is really the key to bridging the gaps that AI leaves.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (50:51.628)
Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. Totally.

Janice, great conversation, great conversation. And we are getting closer to the final segment of our conversation, which is, think about it, it's just one question, but I think it's four or five different groups. And I'm going to start with the first one, which is, what would be your piece of advice for those human beings, job seekers?

Janice Litvin (51:06.302)
Okay.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (51:29.006)
They're trying to navigate to job applications and trying to land their next job and finding themselves in this new world with AI doing most of the recruitment process for company. What would be those tips that you would tell to people to make the resume stand out or make sure that they at least have a shot on getting through the initial part?

Janice Litvin (51:59.614)
Number one, be clear on what you're good at and what you like. Usually, usually what you like you're good at, but not always. So be really clear on what you're good at and what you like. So that's number one, because you want to succeed if possible. Number two, something I've always said in a resume, people read, including AI tools from top to bottom and left to right. So don't bury the lead. So.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (52:03.022)
Hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (52:15.939)
Right.

Janice Litvin (52:28.296)
I was working with one young woman and she had some leadership skills that she had developed through internships and they were way at the bottom of her resume under whatever it was, internships or whatever. I said, you're burying the lead. Leadership skills for an entry-level person are highly unusual and unique. Put those at the top. Have a skills summary section or an executive summary section, whatever you wanna call it at the top. And don't...

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (52:28.558)
and

Janice Litvin (52:56.53)
whatever you do, don't put excellent verbal and written communication skills, which is what a lot of books used to advise. I hope they're not doing that anymore. First of all, your written skills are illustrated by your resume and your verbal skills are illustrated by the interview. So you don't need to say that. And everyone says it or used to say it, so leave that out, but put your unique skills. And for God's sakes, don't put your objective. Years ago,

a lot of resume advice books would say, put an objective at the top. That's not what it's about. It's about what you can do for the company and what the company can do for you in a way that is mutually beneficial. And so if you're looking for a technology job, like a computer programmer job, again, it's about getting along with people. It's about the unique edges you have.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (53:32.622)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (53:38.456)
Right.

Janice Litvin (53:51.516)
like team leadership skills that you have, or ways of thinking about problem solving that you have, or some of your accomplishments. And it's not just a thousand bullets. I was responsible for this and I was responsible for that. Use action verbs on a resume and write your bullets in terms of what you accomplished. You may not know that you saved your company $100,000 with your project.

but you certainly streamlined a system with some of your projects. So write your resume in terms of important key accomplishments.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (54:31.566)
Very timely advice. Thanks for sharing that, Janice. And what would be your piece of advice for companies and HR leaders implementing AI in their recruitment process?

Janice Litvin (54:34.121)
Of course.

Janice Litvin (54:49.108)
Well, as we talked about earlier, do a bias audit. Make sure, and there are many articles now because this has become a very big issue, a big topic. So demand from your vendors that they themselves have implemented some kind of bias audit because that's the last thing you want to be accused of is bias in your hiring. And you don't want that. You want a well-rounded,

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (54:56.814)
Mm-hmm.

Big topic, yeah.

Janice Litvin (55:19.06)
You want well-rounded teams. You don't want all people from one gender or another or one zip code or another, because then you've pigeonholed yourself into one category. And so that would be the number one thing is a AI audit. And then use AI wisely. Don't forget that people are humans. We are not machines and we have feelings.

and AI, as much as it acts like it cares about you, it's a machine. It's a machine with machine learning, what they call machine learning.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (55:53.707)
It does not.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (56:00.692)
Even though there are people using AI and shot GPT as their personal psychology, it's not, it doesn't care about you, people don't do it.

Janice Litvin (56:08.904)
Well, sadly, sadly, one young girl, sadly took her own life and was using Chachi B.T. as her psychologist.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (56:16.598)
I think I read those very sad news about it. It's unfortunate.

Janice Litvin (56:19.968)
And it brought up a lot of ethical, there are a lot of ethics built into this. It brought up a lot of ethical issues. Should Chachi BT have been programmed to notify somebody? Because if you're a psychologist and you think someone's gonna take their life, you have an ethical duty to call the authorities or at least their parents. The parents had no idea.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (56:33.346)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (56:46.25)
It's it's a off this just open

Janice Litvin (56:48.244)
That's an extreme case, but it does illustrate the point that you have to remember ethical considerations when using AI.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (56:51.821)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (56:55.998)
Absolutely. And that's the type of things that these companies building these AI solutions and systems, they are not thinking a lot about, which is those type of scenarios like this one where AI hasn't been designed to, or like you say, trigger an alert or think, hey, I should stop right here. There's something wrong, you know, coming out of this conversation.

Janice Litvin (57:20.32)
or at least encourage the person, you know, we're getting to an area where I can see that you need to reach out to your parents and your own psychologist.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (57:26.862)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (57:34.796)
Yeah, I read those news and it makes us think, right, and John is on how people are using all these solutions for many different things that they should not be using. Your doctor is your doctor, nothing should replace that, right?

Janice Litvin (57:46.784)
Yeah.

Janice Litvin (57:50.716)
It reminds me of the early days of the internet when there were these chat rooms. And I assume they're still there. I don't really know. But when people would go into chat rooms and develop relationships, they didn't know who was on the other side. They didn't know if they were talking to a woman, a man, an old person, a young person, or a predator.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (57:57.974)
I remember those.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (58:08.854)
You are bringing so many memories to this conversation that I'm loving it because chat rooms used to be the thing back in the day.

Janice Litvin (58:12.063)
Well.

Janice Litvin (58:16.128)
There was a website before Facebook called MySpace or something like that, where predators were making dates with people. And again, other sad, sad stories from these situations. And that brings up a whole nother set of ethics about parents and children and their communication and their relationship, but it's similar. It applies to the workplace.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (58:22.454)
MySpace, yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (58:31.448)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (58:40.608)
I see the similarity for sure, absolutely, Okay, next one, Janice, what would be your piece of advice for governments and policy makers?

Janice Litvin (59:02.45)
another can of worms here opening for a final segment. Actually, I have a friend whose daughter is in a think tank for this kind of thing. Again, it's about ethics and the impact, and I assume you mean in relation to AI, use of AI. When it comes to critical thinking and decision-making, like we were referring to earlier, AI cannot be the final word.

And the ethics of using AI for every function in a workplace, just especially in financial efforts or anything impacting human lives. Like for example, there are people whose job it is to investigate issues of fraud or theft or things like that.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (59:49.506)
Hmm.

Janice Litvin (01:00:01.419)
They're called inspectors general, which I learned about when I did a banished burnout program for them. And these people are in every level of government, city government, federal government, every agency. Sitting behind the scenes, we're not aware of our inspectors who are part of the process of running a government entity. And anytime there's any semblance of trouble, they get called.

And so again, there's critical thinking skills. Yes, AI might generate some of the initial hard evidence, but to see past the evidence and make critical decisions, you need those humans.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (01:00:41.848)
That's still very human, absolutely, absolutely. And last but not least, Janice, what would be your piece of advice to a young Janice reflected today and in this new future with AI? Imagine seeing a younger Janice today, right? What would you tell her?

Janice Litvin (01:00:44.106)
Yeah.

Janice Litvin (01:01:07.38)
That is such a deep question. I didn't know we were gonna go deep like that psychologically. You know, that's interesting. I've been around and I've learned a lot of lessons in my life. And I think one of the biggest lessons I've learned is not to worry so much about my future, to know that I'm a good person, I'm acceptable.

I'm wise, I'm smart enough, I'm good enough. That's the things, because there are a lot of children who grew up in homes with very demanding critical parents. And from the parent's point of view, they're just trying to help the child survive and be successful. They don't realize the impact of some of the things they're doing. And some of those messages like, you've got to make all A's, you've got to get into a good college, all these difficult...

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (01:01:52.588)
Right. Right.

Janice Litvin (01:02:04.774)
messages undermine a child's self-confidence. And so the first thing I would do is I would make sure that children are raised to be happy and to know themselves. My mother's attitude was, how can you know anything? You're too young. I'll make all your decisions for you. But how does a young adult grow up if they don't make

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (01:02:32.802)
after that, right.

Janice Litvin (01:02:32.848)
some mistakes. They gotta make some mistakes. That's how they learn. I mean, of course you don't let a two-year-old run into the middle of a busy street. Of course not. But you let a two-year-old decide what games they're gonna play that day. You can't control other people and expect them to grow and blossom. And so I think the biggest lesson is to know that I knew myself and I didn't think I did.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (01:02:59.182)
Thanks for sharing that, Janice. It's a beautiful message and a very deeply personal one. So I do appreciate you sharing that with us today.

Janice Litvin (01:03:09.586)
My pleasure. And I appreciate you for asking it.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (01:03:13.004)
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I really, really, really love that as part of this question and this answer. really, it's efficiency, right? Efficiency gains is meaningless if it really comes at the cost of empathy. And Janice, thank you for reminding us that technology may be changing how we hire, but it will never change why we hire.

Janice Litvin (01:03:32.189)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (01:03:43.374)
to connect, to build, to believe in people. You've shown us that while AI can streamline the process, only humans can sustain the promise. And I cannot appreciate you more for taking the time to talk to us. I really appreciated this conversation very, very much. So thank you.

Janice Litvin (01:04:05.504)
appreciate you so much. You're a very beautiful person and I really appreciate your kindness.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (01:04:12.258)
Thank you, Janice. And for those of us watching, if this episode resonated with you, share it with the recruiter, a leader, or anyone building teams that last. Follow the human protocol wherever you're listened, and join us every week as we explore how we stay human while building the future with AI. Technology can find the talent. Only people can make human beings stay. Thank you all.

We talk again next time.

Janice Litvin (01:04:44.544)
have a gift also for your listeners. Yes, so I created this top tips for recruiting with AI and your listeners can find it on JaniceLytvin.com slash resources. There are a couple of other resources related to my burnout work there too, but that resource is there for the taking.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (01:04:46.264)
Well, that is true.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (01:05:09.48)
Awesome Janice. Thank you very much for this kindness and I'm gonna make sure that when we post and when we start promoting and posting this episode we put it also the link and everybody for people to to get it and One more time. Thank you. All right much appreciation for you

Janice Litvin (01:05:26.346)
Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. I hope that we talk again in the future.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (01:05:31.422)
Absolutely, thank you. Okay.