How to Tell Your Story and Stay Relevant in the Age of AI with Sabine Hutchison

Full Episode Transcript

This is the full recorded conversation from The Human Protocol Podcast, published by The Human Protocol Group. © 2026 The Human Protocol Group. Please link to and attribute the original episode when referencing this conversation.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (00:01.707)
Reinvention isn't a leap. It is a practice you repeat until your identity catches up. And remember that legacy is really not a Sunday project. It is a daily practice. Welcome to the Human Protocol, the podcast about staying human while building the future. I am your host, Michael Salomon. Today, we are joined by Sabine Hutchinson, and I'm very excited to have our guest with us today.

Thank you for taking the time Sabine to be with us and to kick things off in a good way. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Sabine Hutchison (00:40.79)
Yeah, hi, thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to be on this one. It's ending my week. So what a great way to end up the week. Well, I am, what am I? I've been a lot of things. I'm a sister. I'm wife. I've been an employee. I'm self-employed.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (00:48.077)
Yes

Sabine Hutchison (01:03.414)
I've worn lots of different hats and I think that that's what brought me here today and to talk about some of the things that we're gonna be going into our conversation about. I love perspectives. I love getting different, having those different hats help in the way that I talk and the way that I lead and in the conversations that I have. And most recently I've written a book and started a platform to help women speak. So.

that those are some new hats that I'm gonna be wearing in these discussions. And I'm looking forward to diving into the conversation.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (01:39.253)
Awesome. Thank you for that. And I love the different hats. think it's into, especially with this new future that we are getting ourselves into, wearing different hats is really what's going to take us to the next level. It's going to be a must. absolutely. So yeah, thank you, Sabina.

Sabine Hutchison (01:48.428)
Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (01:54.69)
Yeah, definitely.

Sabine Hutchison (01:58.764)
Actually, that takes us to the human piece, thinking about what you are so passionate about and what you do. So yeah, that's an interesting one, the hats we wear.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (02:09.119)
Absolutely, I love that. So let's get down and let's get started, right? And we briefly discussed that when we met, when we had our intercall, and how AI is really changing roles, right? And even changing people's identities in a way. And one thing is for sure, the usual ladder that people used to dream of, right? It's not...

Sabine Hutchison (02:23.712)
Hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (02:37.483)
much of a certainty anymore. And that's what I love about the different hats, because that's what I think people need to think about is how you can diversify your skills in a way that you can continue to add value. And I would like to start this conversation with you with really trying to understand

Sabine Hutchison (02:40.375)
Right.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (03:02.669)
From your point of view, Sabina, what does it mean to go beyond the ladder in your career and leadership journey?

Sabine Hutchison (03:12.366)
It's interesting, I'm gonna pull up, I had a conversation today that is so relevant, I think, to what we're gonna be talking about today. And then to this question, it was someone that's a very senior woman within a large organization, she's at a pharmaceutical company, and we were talking about ladders, and we were talking about career progression, and she said, you know, I have...

There are people that think out, want this, I want this, and I want this, or I want to step up the ladder and take these specific steps in my career. And she said, I've never done that. She said, I've had in my most recent company, I've had four roles, but I didn't necessarily think, okay, this step, this step, and this step. And we talked about how important it is to however you want to develop your career is to how to be prepared. And

to have your uniqueness and what you bring to potential positions available. And I think that that's the difference in the world that we're living in. I feel like everything is so unpredictable and you don't know what's gonna happen in organizations, but what you can predict is and talk about is yourself, your skills, what you bring to the table.

your unique, beautiful jam. You know, what makes you different? And I believe that that's going to be such an important piece for individuals in their career and the next steps that they take in the future that we're moving into is to know that about yourself. And if someone asks you about yourself, to be able to readily and easily pull out stories, situations, examples, that is going to make the difference.

in taking career steps. So not to have it all planned out, but to have your piece and what you're great at readily available so you can tell stories.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (05:13.581)
I totally agree with you. think it's more crucial than ever that we really know who we are. And that's part of what the uniqueness that you just mentioned comes from. I think one of the most consequential questions of our times and that I tell my friends and colleagues and everyone that I have a pleasure to talk about the future in this way is.

Sabine Hutchison (05:20.589)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (05:36.651)
really who we are, because only when you come from an understanding and a place that you know who you are and what you're bringing and what your uniqueness is, that's when you really know how and where you can go next. And I think, Sabina, for some people, that question is not answered yet. And I think it's crucial we ask that question.

Sabine Hutchison (05:42.828)
Mm-hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (05:56.802)
Yeah, it's night.

Yeah. And I think ask that question to yourself regularly, because I am a different person and I've learned new skills last year than today. And I think, and again, we often say, okay, I'm great at this and this and this, but it's completely different. Our evolution brings new skills, brings new ideas. I just made a note of everything. I feel like every conversation that I have too brings ideas.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (06:06.305)
That's a good point. That's a good point.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (06:12.001)
That's the most important point.

Sabine Hutchison (06:28.398)
and brings perspectives that you use in your career and in life.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (06:34.667)
That's the beauty of this is that, you know, we continue to learn from each other. And that's where, and I'm also hoping these conversations and when people are listening to it, they learn and they make them think. And yeah, it's not a one-time thing. We continue to learn every single day. And that's where adaptability, it's also so important, this new future, because we will have to adapt ourselves in a way that...

Sabine Hutchison (06:52.067)
No!

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (07:02.157)
If we want to continue to be relevant, we jump into whatever is in progress and we learn and we go.

Sabine Hutchison (07:06.625)
Absolutely.

Sabine Hutchison (07:11.116)
Yeah, every day, every conversation I have, I'm constantly writing notes. I have this one notebook here that I use for new ideas and, and, I want to do a post about that or I want to talk about that eventually. And so actually I've just written down two things from this conversation. So sorry if I'm looking down, but I don't want to forget them because they're so key.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (07:20.012)
you

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (07:25.677)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (07:30.951)
No, no, it's okay.

It's okay. It's a very exciting topic for sure to talk about. Yeah, I think it's extremely important. And Sabina, what are the heating costs of climbing? Everybody, you know, wants to get to the next level. Not a lot of conversation around the sacrifices, what needs to happen.

Sabine Hutchison (07:35.982)
you

Hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (08:01.789)
if you want to go from point A and climb it to point B, there is a lot in between that you need to be able to put in the work. And I don't think people talk a lot about this topic.

Sabine Hutchison (08:10.594)
Right.

that in-between space. Yeah, that's an interesting place to be. It's like walking into the woods and you can do that a lot as well. You need to also embrace those in-between spaces. We always talk about getting out of the woods and seeing the clearing. And I think we also need to be in the woods and to be confused.

and to not know an answer, but to have to work through it. And those struggles are sometimes they feel heavy and you think, I just want to get through this. If we were to welcome that more and to be in that space more and not necessarily try to push it all away, I believe that that's also a space that we can then we're open, then we're more open to learning. It was interesting. I worked

with a coach and I had this, I don't necessarily have lots of aha moments, but I did have an aha moment with her when we were talking about you as a leader, you want to always be calm and you want to have answers and you want to be inspirational to people. And sometimes I would think, I have to push away this feeling or I need to not have this feeling because that's the magic is to not have it. Well,

you're never not going to have it. There's always going to be emotions. There's always things going to be coming up. So instead of trying to push it away and think, OK, I'm successful if I don't feel this or if I don't have anger or frustration, it's actually not the not the case. They're there. You're always going to have them, but it's what you do with them. And that for me was this aha. It's like, OK, there are it's always going to be there.

Sabine Hutchison (10:07.31)
We're gonna have these situations, but then how do I manage in those times? So it's like being in that in-between space and dealing with that, that helps you go then to that next level of wherever you wanna go. Whether it be a higher position if you want to move to higher roles, or if you love where you are, I think that that's also something that we need to welcome. Not everyone wants to be a CEO or a leader or a manager.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (10:22.221)
I'm gonna turn it.

Sabine Hutchison (10:36.93)
where you are is also a great place. it's about the, were speaking, you were speaking earlier about the awareness and knowing yourself. That's the key piece is to know that space and decide, okay, do I want to go there or am I okay here? And I'm okay here for right now, but I'm going to do this really well.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (10:54.945)
Yeah, and it's all fine and it should feel like it's also fine. And the key part of these and I'm just listening to what you're saying is give yourself an opportunity to know where you are so much in a way that you can then make a decision to be remain in the same place or take to the next level. And the in between spaces, I think sometimes people are afraid of having to go because, you know,

Sabine Hutchison (10:58.176)
It's all fine. Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (11:21.698)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (11:23.807)
It may be a struggle, it may feel like work, but sometimes going through those is what really makes you understand who you are and where you want to go next.

Sabine Hutchison (11:32.013)
Yeah.

Yeah, because it's uncomfortable. Being sitting in that space is uncomfortable. One of the, have this card that I give out with my book and it says, rarely be in your comfort zone because that's, those are the, often the times where, where you grow the most and you learn the most is that, is that in between space. I actually like that idea. Living more in that in between space and talking more about it, it's okay.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (11:36.341)
because it's uncomfortable. Yes.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (11:44.449)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (11:59.081)
It's okay. And it should feel okay. And I wish more people talk about the struggles that are going, that it's to go through those times instead of just the shiny and fancy stuff, which is getting to the next. I mean, it feels good. We all know that. But I think sometimes success and getting to the next level feels so much like the end goal, reaching that end goal instead of, you know, appreciating the journey.

Sabine Hutchison (12:01.751)
Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (12:24.109)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (12:28.577)
that it was going from one port to the other.

Sabine Hutchison (12:28.995)
Yeah.

Yeah, we hear that a lot, don't we, about, you know, really enjoy the journey. And there's a lot to be said to that. It's sometimes a phrase where people can maybe roll their eyes and go, yeah, whatever, enjoy the journey. But there's a lot to be said to that. It's a very valuable place to be. We rush, you know, everything is getting so fast. And we're just rushing, rushing, rushing to get to point A and then B and then C and then the next one. And again, it's like sitting and taking your time and

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (12:39.937)
Yeah. True.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (12:51.34)
Yes.

Sabine Hutchison (13:00.974)
and enjoying each step is so beautiful. I wouldn't give any of them up. Those in between spaces, sometimes they were very painful. However, it feels fast. Yeah, it feels very fast. I think at the rate you also mentioned AI, I mean, the space.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (13:04.937)
It is.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (13:11.841)
Yeah. But it feels fast life lately, isn't it? Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (13:23.906)
beat of which that's all evolving is incredible. And again, this feeling of like, need to keep up, I need to keep up, I need to, I need to, need to, it can be exhausting.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (13:33.613)
It can definitely be. And sometimes because life is going so fast, we don't have the opportunity to have these conversations and get to know ourselves better. So now more than ever, we need to know ourselves. You need to take the time and think about it. Because if not, life will happen. You like it or not, and you won't have a say on your new future. And that would not be a good future in a way.

Sabine Hutchison (13:49.292)
Mm-hmm. A must.

Sabine Hutchison (14:03.094)
Yeah, that is so true. Yeah, it is happening and it's happening fast and and it is important to take the time and to pause. Pauses are powerful. Pauses are powerful when you're giving a speech or a talk and pauses are powerful in life too.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (14:16.845)
I love that. Yes. And people don't think about that. Sometimes when you're giving a speech, you don't think about how important is the pause because you need to continue to read your room, right? Yeah. Interesting.

Sabine Hutchison (14:20.792)
Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (14:30.476)
Hmm. Pauses. Hugely powerful. Yeah. The power of the pause. Yep. That's it. And then things hit. You know, we want again, we want to get our message across so quickly. It's again, I've got so much to say. I need to get it out. But pausing and speaking slowly. One of the exercises that we have in this, the Ripple Network that I have, we work on

It's a platform for women and they work on their speaking skills. And that's one of the challenges that they get. They get a challenge each week and one of them is slowing down. So they have to do a talk at what they think is a normal speed and then right away, slower. And everyone was shocked at the difference where they thought they were talking like in slow motion, know, like the robots moving in slow motion. That was not the case at all. It was actually a beautiful pace.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (15:12.301)
Hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (15:24.45)
And the first one was much too quick because they paused and they stopped and they looked at the room. So it's really interesting to do some. So that would be an interesting exercise for some people to actually do, say 10 sentences at normal speed and then say them slowly and to see the difference about how the words hit and those pauses and the inclinations are just a bit different and can have a different impact on your listener.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (15:27.733)
Look at that.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (15:50.177)
That's a perfect segue for our next kind of section, which is things get better with practice, right? And you were talking about public speaking. Public speaking, as I have learned, it's a repetition exercise. The more you repeat it, the more you should get better. And the topic that I want to talk to you that I know you are extremely passionate about is really this topic about reinvention, okay?

Sabine Hutchison (16:06.542)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (16:17.966)
Mmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (16:18.143)
and the reinvention, but the reinvention without the drama, without the hype. And how important is the practice in all of this? So when we talk about reinvention, Sabina, what are the pivots that you can share with us about resilience and growth, for example?

Sabine Hutchison (16:22.166)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (16:41.518)
Oh, my goodness, that's a big question. There's a lot to go there. So, whoo. That's a lot. I have to think about that for a second. Talk about pausing. I'm going to pause for a second. Okay. So if we about practice and the reinvention, please, let me start there. And you may have to remind me about the second piece, as I'm going to try to do this in chunks. So the reinvention, I find reinvention so interesting.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (16:45.965)
Sorry about that.

you

Sabine Hutchison (17:12.126)
Oftentimes we have this idea of reinvention is like this, vavooom, this huge change or, you know, a fairy godmother comes and taps you with her wand and then you're this different person. But I don't believe that. Sometimes you can have some dramatic reinventions, but most often it happens over time, but you can still focus on it, but it's the practice pieces. I'm a very practical person and

Everything that I talk to people about and work with individuals with is about practicing doing things repetitively over and over again. And then the reinvention happens. When I remember the first time that I gave a talk in public, I had to lock my knees because I was shaking so much. thought I was going to that I was physically shaking in front of the people. So I just had to lock my legs. I said,

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (18:09.193)
Wow.

Sabine Hutchison (18:12.078)
in a matter of five minutes, like 10,000 times. And I was like, oh my goodness, I can never do this again. This is horrible. So the first experience wasn't the best. I was like, okay, I wanna keep, this is something that I wanna work on. I'd like to get better at this. And that was the practicing piece that led to a reinvention where now I have a platform that helps women speak.

So what a dramatic shift, but it took years to get there, years from the first time that I did that talk to what I'm doing now. So again, it doesn't necessarily happen overnight. It is an idea. You work on something and that reinvention can be part of your own evolution. then again, it feels a bit voila, all of a sudden it's there, but it's taken, you know, 10 years to get there.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (19:02.732)
Mm-hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (19:05.646)
And that's where the resilience piece, if you go back to the resilience, it's also this to keep at it, to get up again, to show up every day, even though some days you just you don't want to show up and you just want to huddle somewhere and be like, I don't want to I don't want to do anything. I don't want to talk to anyone. I don't want to see anyone. So that's the resilience piece that comes in, because sometimes the reinvention can happen more quickly. Sometimes it can take years, but it's the

that kind of the consistency was staying with it, I think is so important.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (19:39.693)
It is extremely important and it's about taking the steps to and be willing and allow yourself to go through it. You allow yourself, you want it to. This is something that you want. And even the first time you said, OK, this was not good. We are humans. That's what you know, that's part of what makes us humans. Humans at the beginning may not be good unless we are very we are born with the skills in a way that we're naturals. Everything has to be learned.

Sabine Hutchison (19:49.667)
Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (19:56.11)
Yeah.

Yep.

Sabine Hutchison (20:05.708)
Right.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (20:08.277)
And that's where the reps and the practice should help, right?

Sabine Hutchison (20:08.674)
Yes. Yeah, it's interesting. I find often when we think about individuals that you want to improve something. So for instance, you want to play an instrument or you want to learn a sport or a language mentally, we're like, okay, that's going to take some time and I'm going to have to really work at this to get better and to improve.

But oftentimes in our careers, we have different expectations of ourselves. We think that we need to be a manager because now that's part of our title. And that that just happens because, oops, now she's got a new title. So there she needs to have all the skills to be able to do that right away. And that's such an interesting like dichotomy. What we have is that if I'm going to learn to play the piano, I know it's going to take a long time.

But if I want to be a good leader or a speaker or anything that's associated with our career, we want it like that, like at a snap of the finger. And it doesn't work that way. So it's changing that mindset as well. And looking at our careers like learning an instrument, it's going to take some time to improve.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (21:17.805)
Hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (21:24.279)
Perfect time to ask you about my next question, is why is all or nothing the enemy of growth?

Sabine Hutchison (21:33.046)
Oy.

Sabine Hutchison (21:36.364)
Because if it's all or nothing, like the first time that I gave that talk, if I would have, that would have been all or nothing. I would have never done anything else with it. That would have been over because it was horrible. I felt, I did not feel confident. I felt embarrassed. And I would have never done it again if it would have been all or nothing. My first roles as a leader, if it would again, would have been all or nothing, I would have stepped back because

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (21:43.095)
Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (22:05.902)
It wasn't a success right away. And that's where we need to give ourselves some grace and this idea of practicing and taking steps and a bit more patience. feel like patience is also zipping by and the patience, just, yeah, it's disappearing. And that's a shame because that again goes to this all or nothing. And all or nothing is almost impossible to be successful.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (22:23.605)
is vanishing.

Sabine Hutchison (22:35.726)
So yeah, building in some patience and practice can be hugely beneficial.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (22:38.317)
No.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (22:42.849)
You know, now you're talking about this, my mind is also thinking what you're saying. The three Ps, pause, patient, and what is the other one? Pause, patient, you mentioned another one. What was it with the P? Practice. Pause, patient, and practice. Because now that we're talking about this, my mind is thinking about all these, they are kind of related if you don't pause.

Sabine Hutchison (22:57.23)
practice. Oh, you've given me look at that. Gotta write that down too. Yeah. Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (23:11.448)
They're very related. That's a good one.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (23:12.173)
You don't have any patience. How are you going to practice if you don't pause and you don't, it's like one and the other are linked.

Sabine Hutchison (23:18.575)
they're totally intertwined. You're so right. Nice. Look what we're coming up with on this chat today.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (23:24.135)
Exactly. Some gems, some gems that I hope people will appreciate. Yeah. That's funny. Just how the conversation flows and how things go, right? I'll try not to forget it. I don't have to take notes here, but if you can send me the three P's and the email after, because I don't want to forget.

Sabine Hutchison (23:27.212)
Yeah, there are some gems.

Sabine Hutchison (23:34.934)
Yeah, yeah, what's in my notebook now too, so I'm going to do that too. love it. I will. I'll send you a picture for all the notes. I will.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (23:50.157)
All right, Sabina, so let's talk about the repo network lens, voice, visibility, and the rep economy, right? And what really, if you can tell us a little bit what really inspired you to create that and what repo effect do you hope it sparks in people?

Sabine Hutchison (24:11.5)
Hmm. Yeah. Well, probably the beginning was that first talk, and I wanted to continue to improve. Then I had the opportunity to take a course for learning to do a TED talk. So it was more it was about the presentation piece, but it was also about the writing, how to put a story together, how to engage an audience. So I took this course with three. were three of us or two other ladies in the course.

and beautiful talks. I thought that they were really impressive, what everyone wrote. However, none of us actually ended up on a TED stage. And I thought, this is nuts because we're being, it's being influenced by if we're a step on a certain stage or not, if these stories are told. And I thought that that's such a shame. And I thought about how many other stories are out there that need to be pulled

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (24:52.183)
Mm-hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (25:11.32)
from other women, the platforms and the books I've focused on supporting women. So that's why I continue to reference women and not men. And I have to change something about that. So I sat with Gina Dunn, who is the master hind behind the back end of the platform. And we created this space where you can practice back to one of the peas.

Because how often do we have a chance to actually practice what we say? How often do we have the chance to practice even our introductions of how we introduce ourselves and we hear it again? It rarely, right? You rarely have the opportunity to do that. And I was like, that's such a skill in the business world that you are able to hear what you say and to be able to practice. So that's where the platform came from is that we've created now this structure of cohorts where

You are, it's a three month program. You get a challenge every week. And some of it, starts with how do you introduce yourself? And then one of the exercises is about pausing. One is about how to hand gestures. What do you do with your hands? And then we, it builds. So there's lots of different challenges. And that's how it all started. Is it started for me not being able to share my story to, there has to be a place to do this. So it also gives,

individuals the opportunity to record a talk if they want to do an inspirational talk. And then we post it so they can share it with the world. But it's not just for that. It's also building your skill set on how do I go ask for a raise? How do I build my storyline? How do I pull out what's important about me? What's again, my jam that I can go in to my manager and ask for a raise or a new position or interviewing for a job or

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (26:50.188)
Mmm.

Sabine Hutchison (27:04.032)
leading a meeting and being able to weave a beautiful story into a meeting and captivate the people in the meeting room. So that's what it's all about is to be able to do that. And we just don't have a place to practice that. And that's where the inspiration and everything came from.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (27:17.761)
That's awesome.

Yeah, that's awesome. And it makes me think based on your experience so far and the focus on working with women, what have you seen out there where women need more of mentorship or sponsorship? Because those are different, right? And I'm curious to hear from you, where is the need more if it's on one side or the other or it's in the middle of both?

Sabine Hutchison (27:36.334)
They're different, they sure are.

Sabine Hutchison (27:43.374)
Hmm.

Yeah, it's both. Mentors are fantastic. I've been fortunate to work with a lot of amazing individuals that have really helped guide me, almost like a coach to support me. So definitely had a lot of fantastic mentors. I've had less sponsors. I've been fortunate to have one or two that they were the ones that really spoke up for me when I wasn't there. And that's what I can see is the definition of a sponsor.

is that that's the person in your organization that drops your name in the right time that says, have you thought about Sabina for this position? Pushes you to go take on, to sit in meetings, to take on leadership trainings, to all of those things, to put you in those positions where you can shine and again, where you can show your skills. But you need to have those available. Back to that.

So it's important that you have your playlist of skills that you can pull out and use in those conversations. So that's the difference between, I think a mentor can help you build your list. What are you great at? So that person can really help you uncover and articulate those where the sponsor is the one that then puts you in the position where you can use it, where you can use those things that you've learned from the mentor.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (29:05.931)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (29:14.571)
Yeah, because it makes me think as we are going through this conversation, both are important, but a mentor can only help you until it reaches the point that it helps you to develop those skills, right, in a way, or show you what is the path forward. But the sponsor is really what's going to articulate about you, you know, put you in rooms where you are not, in a way. And that makes total difference.

Sabine Hutchison (29:21.357)
Mmm.

Sabine Hutchison (29:41.974)
Right, exactly. Yes. It's almost like a triangle because it's the mentor, it's the sponsor in a corner, and then it's you because you definitely need to be able to talk about yourself and you need to know, you need to know yourself and to give the sponsor.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (29:45.153)
That makes total difference.

Sabine Hutchison (30:03.616)
information that they need to help position you. So it's a very, it's it's an important triangle. I think all three of those are key. You being kind of in the, in the middle of it.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (30:06.039)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (30:14.145)
Yeah, I agree. I agree. And let's talk about what I call the human edge, Really in the AI era. The more I talk about the future, the more I read about the future, and the more I know about AI and what it's common, I think storytelling is really will be as important as it's ever been. Because telling your story,

Sabine Hutchison (30:23.618)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (30:43.615)
should be your responsibility and tell it the best way you can tell it. It's also kind of a skill, which is as important as it ever been, right? Because we know words, but really to transform our story in a way that creates an impact, that's really a skill that needs to be developed, right?

Sabine Hutchison (30:46.935)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yes.

Sabine Hutchison (30:56.589)
Mm-hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (31:05.549)
Yeah, is. Yeah, totally it does. And it can be. There are some individuals, oftentimes, you know, you I'm sure you've been there and some of the audience members where you've sat in an event or a meeting and you're just mesmerized by the person. They're like, how do they do that? They must just, you know, come out of the womb and they're able to tell stories. But that's rarely the case. It's taken a lot of

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (31:27.095)
Mm-hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (31:30.734)
practice to do that. And again, I think we forget that back to our conversation. Yeah. And to make it look effortless. That's a lot of work to do that. You know, a concert, someone singing, it's a lot of work to do to be able to say, yeah, it's so worth it. It's so worth it. And it's such a great it's so wonderful to be to be able to to do that and to have someone come to you and say, wow.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (31:32.225)
back to our conversation at the beginning.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (31:43.383)
But we promise it's worthy, right Sabina?

Sabine Hutchison (31:58.85)
That was great, know, that I really took this away from what you said. That's also these ripples that we can that we create when we when we tell our stories. Stories are so so important. You know, that's from the beginning of time or stories. And if we're able to pull people along with us and to get them motivated and excited, that's the way to do it. And you're so right. That's what sets us apart from everyone else, everyone else in the room.

Everyone has a story, but how do those stories come out and who shares them and who kind of keeps them for themselves and doesn't trust themselves to talk about their stories? Because people are interested and they're interested more in your name and your title. They want to know more about you. We connect with individuals and we connect with stories and and it's just I cannot reiterate it enough. I really think that that's one of the key skills.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (32:46.925)
Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (32:56.162)
that you should have. We talk about leadership and any role that you are storytelling is key and can have such an impact on a role that you're in if you want to stay there or also one that you want to evolve to.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (33:08.619)
Yeah, especially in your career or even in your personal life. It's like the way I look at this is like we kind of need to turn ourselves into the best salesperson that we can be. Because that's really what salespeople they do. They sell the story and they're very good at it, right? Because they can actually tell you things and put things in front of you that makes you, you know.

Sabine Hutchison (33:21.132)
Mm-hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (33:26.496)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (33:33.985)
buy things that maybe sometimes you don't even need. So this is when I look at storytelling, it's how you can build the best story that you can about yourself, about where you have been that really creates an impact. To talk about numbers and metrics, people don't remember those. They remember the story at the end of the day. How they felt.

Sabine Hutchison (33:51.16)
They don't. How they felt, right? That's the thing. How they felt, yeah, when they were with you.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (33:59.637)
Yeah, especially, you know, leaders and the authenticity around it. It's like really how you can build the best story that you can while remaining authentic to your values, to where you come from is crucial.

Sabine Hutchison (34:13.134)
you

Yeah, so true. It is so, so true. Yeah, I can't, that's like, that's the lesson of the day, I think, to be able to share stories about yourself and also to advocate for yourself. So it feels sometimes, yeah, you are selling yourself, but it's also standing up for yourself and what you've done and being proud of what you've accomplished and being able to pull that into stories. Oftentimes people can struggle and they feel

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (34:33.131)
Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (34:45.622)
I can't talk about myself because it'll seem that I'm boasting or bragging or so there are ways with storytelling that you can talk about your successes and accomplishments, but you weave them into a story so it doesn't feel like you're like it's like you're with a megaphone, you know, screaming about yourself, but you can drop things in. And that's the skill piece is to weave things into a conversation.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (35:02.965)
Like it's about yours. Yes.

Sabine Hutchison (35:15.286)
And people are like, whoa, you did that. Yeah, but it was the way that you told the story about an accomplishment that you had. And that sticks then with people.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (35:24.639)
It's funny you mentioned that because it makes me think about someone that I talked to about public speaking and how to improve the delivery of it. He always told me, listen, people are not interested when you're giving a speech. They're not interested about you. They're interested in knowing what is in your presentation about them. And that's what the key about all this is. And when we're looking and talking about how we can

Sabine Hutchison (35:49.486)
Mm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (35:54.251)
talk about ourselves without sounding that it's really about ourselves. It reminds me that really it's how you build the story. And there are many ways that you can build your own story without sounding that it's all about yourself.

Sabine Hutchison (35:58.232)
Right.

Sabine Hutchison (36:05.688)
Absolutely.

Yeah, and you weave in other people. That's the beauty about stories, right? There are all kinds of characters and stories. So you can weave individuals into the story that were part of it, but also still you. That you're, you know, maybe you're the key figure, but there is a lot of other people around and maybe sometimes you're not the key figure. That's also key. Maybe somebody, maybe it's time to lift someone else up and have them be the key figure and your support role. You have a supporting role. So it's how to use that.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (36:27.339)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (36:35.533)
Hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (36:38.502)
and but also have it feel authentic. So it's not that you're trying to, yeah, I don't know, to try to sell something that feels wrong, but it's about doing things in a good way that people, again, will remember you because you're not always the main character. Others are there too. So how do you help elevate them? I think that that's a very important thing.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (36:49.91)
Right.

Sabine Hutchison (37:04.251)
that individuals should do as well. You hope that others have done it for you, so you should do it for others as well.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (37:10.305)
Totally agree. I love that angle for sure. All right.

Sabine Hutchison (37:13.632)
Yeah. Makes you empathetic too, by the way, if you do. mean, again, it's like being, you know, bring out the empathetic side of yourself and share about others.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (37:22.913)
Yeah, like we have been discussing, it's a skill, it's practice, it doesn't get better the first time, but you start finding, you know, finding a good place for you to start building those skills. agree. So Sabina, I would like to ask you about feedback, and especially leadership, How important, from your point of view, is...

Sabine Hutchison (37:27.126)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (37:36.034)
Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (37:46.071)
Hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (37:52.085)
and how can feedback can become a gift rather than a fear for triggering in others, for example. So I think sometimes it's especially leaders sometimes they avoid the feedback because of that. So I'm curious to see how you navigate through it and what you can share with us about that.

Sabine Hutchison (38:02.478)
Hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (38:10.446)
Mm.

Sabine Hutchison (38:16.268)
Yeah, well, that's also a journey. And one that you always have to work on feedback is, I believe it's a gift. I interviewed someone for the book and she talked about that. It was really impressive. She was a very, she was the chief security officer in a large automobile organization. So really high role. And she always took feedback as a gift. said in the beginning, it can be a challenge.

the difficult feedback can be a challenge to get and you start to like you feel sometimes that it can feel like an attack. So it's really letting go of the ego and taking it on and thinking, OK, this is going to make me stronger. This is going to make me improve in areas that I need to improve on because we all have them. Every one of us has areas to improve. So see it as that it's actually like free.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (38:55.318)
Hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (39:14.638)
Free therapy, we can see it like that. Sometimes we pay for therapy, but this could also be free therapy. And to take that and to do something with it and don't necessarily always point the fingers at someone else. And an interesting way to do that is that we've incorporated something into the company is that we do start, stop and keep, and we do it throughout the year.

So it's a beautiful way to get feedback because you're saying something that somebody could potentially start doing that may potentially improve something that they should keep doing, which is something very positive and then something that they should stop. So it's a nice rounded way to give feedback. So that's an interesting way to get it. And even though I like to get feedback,

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (40:03.774)
then.

Sabine Hutchison (40:07.766)
I know, because we, as a leadership team, we also get feedback from the team. So it goes all directions. It's a must.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (40:13.013)
It's a must. It should go both ways. Bottom to top, top to bottom. I agree.

Sabine Hutchison (40:18.966)
Yeah, totally. And still, even though I work on this, I remember last year, we do it three times a year. And at the end of last year, I was like, okay, well, here's your feedback. I thought I got a little funky feeling in my stomach. And why does my brain turn into like, shit, instead of like, nope.

welcome this. So it's constant practice. doesn't, again, it doesn't happen overnight. We constantly have to work on it. So getting it helps you improve. Like again, the practice piece, getting feedback is a practice aspect.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (40:42.209)
Yeah, it's. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (40:55.949)
At end of the day, we are humans and we should allow ourselves to enjoy also that part of what makes us humans, which is going through the uncomfortable and sometimes we like it or we may not like it. It's in our nature, right, in a way.

Sabine Hutchison (40:58.573)
Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (41:10.894)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, and it's so beneficial if I think about some of the feedbacks of something. Something that I got, for instance, is that I am always full of ideas. They're bubbling out of me constantly. Some people welcome that. Some people see that as if when I come with ideas, one of one of the team members was like, when you do that, I like your ideas, but it makes me feel like I have to do something with them all the time.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (41:42.765)
you're pushing some buttons now because that's very real. It is very real.

Sabine Hutchison (41:46.049)
Yeah.

Yeah, right. And that is so real. So I thought, my goodness, that is so valuable. So now what we've agreed upon is that we have a place where I put the ideas and then we talk about them and then decide, OK, what's going to be implemented and what's not going to be implemented. So that came from feedback and it makes her feel better. It makes me feel that I can still give my ideas.

a little more cautious with just throwing them out all the time. So I watch when I give them and how I give it and that works. And so that was feedback for me that's like, well, I could have taken that also as like, well, as a negative, but I didn't. We worked on it and came to a solution. And that again, just shows how valuable it is to get that regularly.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (42:37.579)
Yeah, because it makes you realize and maybe look at things in a different way. As you were saying, sometimes we're doing things and we're doing and we're doing and we are not even thinking about expecting anything from anyone. For others that are on the other side, it may be a totally different story because they may think, OK, I'm getting all these ideas. What is the expectation? Is it because I need to do something or I need to keep up with this pace?

Sabine Hutchison (42:43.16)
Mm.

Sabine Hutchison (42:51.042)
Right.

Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (43:01.109)
Exactly.

Sabine Hutchison (43:05.056)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (43:06.981)
And the good thing is that as many things in life, the solution for issues is communication between two people, right? At the end of the day, if people communicate and we continue to communicate, we're always going to find a solution one way the other. This is a clear example of that.

Sabine Hutchison (43:15.052)
Absolutely, yeah. Yep.

Sabine Hutchison (43:23.262)
Mm Yes. Yeah, it's so true. And it's just about the clarity of it. That's all we needed is to define a bit of clarity and it worked and it was because of the feedback and yeah, being open, being open for it.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (43:37.805)
Absolutely. I love this use case and this very real case because it's things that people need to think about as we go through it. Sabina, have our next section. It's really the last section of today's conversation. And it's the same question, but for different groups. I'm going to ask you.

Sabine Hutchison (43:45.112)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (44:03.147)
Kind of the same question, but intended to get your opinion for different groups. Okay. So we're going to go through it one by one. So hang in there with me. All right. So, so the first one is what would be your piece of advice for individuals that are navigating change and with AI accelerating and the world as it is right now, what would you recommend or advise them on that they should focus on?

Sabine Hutchison (44:08.118)
Okay. Hmm. All right. Let's do it.

Sabine Hutchison (44:35.15)
Hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (44:37.579)
And these are regular individuals in a way, okay?

Sabine Hutchison (44:39.094)
Yeah, right. Yeah. So I think awareness is key. So it's good to know to be aware of AI and to learn because it's here and it's impacting in, I think, all aspects of our lives. But be aware of yourself. I think that's what you need to you need to look at is to be to spend some time with you. And if you're concerned, because I hear a lot of AI is going to take away my job.

All right, then you need to be prepared for that. If that could happen, companies are using AI more and there could be roles, but it's not this blanket idea that AI is going to take my job. So I think you need to be more aware of your own skillset, some of the things that we've talked about today, be able to articulate them and then use AI.

in a space that feels comfortable for you. So I was just quoted actually for a book because they ask about AI and how we use it. And I think we need to be open about it. I think some people hide that they use AI and I think you should talk about it. So I used it when I wrote the book. So I did 36 interviews and they were like, that means like, and I think I did an hour and a half with each person's interview. I would have been here for 10 years trying to pull

all of that information together. So I did use AI to help me structure those interviews and then be able to pull pieces out and say, okay, this is what I want to include in the book. So that's the way that I used it. I use it for brainstorming. I think it's very valuable. Sometimes I work from a home office and as a thought partner.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (46:17.066)
Mm-hmm.

I'll say third partner, right?

Sabine Hutchison (46:22.766)
Yeah, that doesn't mean I use everything, but sometimes I have ideas. I'm like, oh, that's interesting. I can pull that piece in. So I use it as kind of a bantering, you know, a back and forth. And so, you know, find a space that feels comfortable for you and start using it. How, you know, what you think is going to be beneficial for you.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (46:42.411)
Yeah, that's use case that you provided. It's really the most urgent one that I see as well and how a lot of benefits are for us as professional and regular human beings on our personal side. Use it as your thought partner to brainstorm ideas with you. And you would be amazed of what you can find that sometimes you didn't even think about, even about yourself.

Sabine Hutchison (46:59.086)
Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (47:03.597)
Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (47:08.45)
Yeah, and you can take that idea and then go and do something with that idea. I think that's fabulous. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (47:13.077)
and test it and allow yourself to test and fail and regroup and continue. That's the beauty of life. Cool. The other question, it's two leaders and designers building AI tools. What would you like to remain human? Do you have anything that you have thought lately about this company designing all these AI tools? I want to tell them this.

Sabine Hutchison (47:18.004)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Absolutely.

Sabine Hutchison (47:43.532)
Hmm. I wonder how much companies that are developing these kinds of tools actually talk to people to get feedback on it. So not just to do user testing within the AI, but actually to talk to individuals and to get feedback from people. So that could be an interesting aspect to don't necessarily lose, because you're developing for people. Are you talking to people?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (48:08.866)
Right.

Sabine Hutchison (48:10.474)
to make sure that they're doing things that you want and that you don't stay in your cocoon or just with your developers or just within your company to spread out and to get more information. I mean, I'm assuming a lot of these things, they're saying, okay, we're taking data from the AI, but that still is different than having conversations with individuals and getting very practical feedback. So be careful about being in your cocoon and staying there.

and not expanding beyond that to get information.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (48:43.329)
And if you would have that opportunity, what feedback would you tell them? Let's say, I want to talk to Sabina and let's see what Sabina wants to tell us. Is there anything at the top of your mind?

Sabine Hutchison (48:51.768)
Hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (48:56.664)
What's Sabina want to tell them? No, because I'm not, yeah, I definitely don't have any suggestions on developing because I have no idea how to do any of that. Now, I think that that would be it is to really to make sure that we keep that personal touch from talking to people to help it grow and to evolve and actually see what do people need. That would be, I think that that would be about it.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (49:04.141)
You

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (49:19.351)
Brian.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (49:22.829)
Okay, that sounds good to me. Perfect, so to policymakers and governments, anything around safeguards, ethical concerns that you have or that you would like governments and policymakers to focus more on.

Sabine Hutchison (49:35.278)
Hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (49:40.558)
Yeah, that's a, ooh, that's a big one. That's a big topic too, isn't it? I mean, especially, you know, it's March, what are we, March 6th and what's happening in the world right now. I mean, there's some, you know, there's, have been some big things that have just happened around AI and how do you put guardrails on making decision? I mean, you have to, do do you have to be cautious about making decisions? And if government is making decisions without any kind of guardrails within AI, that for me,

feels very dangerous. And additionally, also with, you know, we've seen lots of things around, you know, there have been suits with individuals who build relationships with AI and there are challenges around that too. So how do you make sure you keep it a safe space too? So I think that there definitely needs to be guardrails. And that is also something that's continuous. You have to look at that every day because we're

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (50:12.311)
Mm-hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (50:39.668)
new things are popping up, probably every millisecond, where you think, goodness, there needs to be a guardrail, there needs to be one, we need to be cautious of this because people are trying it in new ways as well. we just, we're nowhere near the end of any of this. I mean, we're just at the beginning. And I think that the safety piece, we have to really make sure that there's a lot of safety testing and how people are using it.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (51:07.499)
Yeah, that's a big concern to me as well. The testing part of it, I don't know how testing is done on these AI companies, to be honest with you. That continues to be a concern to me. And as you were saying, this is an evolving technology. It's like the capabilities, they are growing more and more. They are becoming smarter and smarter. So they have to be revisited like in constant basis. agree.

Sabine Hutchison (51:13.27)
Yeah.

you

Sabine Hutchison (51:22.914)
Hmm.

Sabine Hutchison (51:27.593)
huge.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, so hopefully they're doing that. I'm assuming they are but I that's what I would hope for

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (51:39.521)
Let's hope, right? Exactly. Let's hope. And finally, Sabina, when is efficiency enough for you?

Sabine Hutchison (51:42.2)
Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (51:49.204)
my goodness, we're always trying to get more efficient, aren't we? To try to pack in more into a day. You know, I remember when back in the day, back in the day, I feel like one of those old people going, well, you know, when I was 20. But it's true, the good old days, I know, my gosh, I never thought I would say that. But it's true, I would, I remember when I got out of university and I started my first job.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (51:56.405)
You

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (52:01.261)
The good old days, maybe.

Sabine Hutchison (52:19.212)
You went in, you worked and you left. And I thought we were pretty efficient, the company worked and things worked. And I feel like that we're just trying to potentially do too much also in a day or what are our days? Our days aren't turning into like, you know, a normal eight hour working day. It's turning into 10 and 12 and 14 hours. And we're, you are constantly looking how to pack more into a day and to be more efficient.

And I feel sometimes that we could pull the brakes on that a little bit. And what is more efficient? Just doing more more and more or taking more time to do, maybe pausing a bit more and to have the quality piece be there. So it's a tough thing, I think, this efficiency piece is that I'm also looking for ways. I fall into that too. How can I be more efficient? And you see all these posts like.

You know, if you do these 10 things today, it's going to change your life. And if you take on these five habits, then you're going to be more efficient and you're going to be able to jam more into your days.

Sabine Hutchison (53:32.142)
I would say just be cautious with that. I can definitely understand that. have so many things that I want to try to be efficient as well, but just don't go too wild with it. know, it's like you can only do so much in a day and make sure that you enjoy things along the way. It's again, pausing, know, and enjoying the journey.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (53:54.839)
That's exactly why I have this question to end these conversations, because depending where the person is coming from, it adds a different angle to it. With this conversation and what you bring to the table, it's also I'm listening to what you're saying just right now, the pausing and you know, and when it's enough, if we keep accelerating and we keep trying to catch up with AI, at some point we're all going to feel like

Sabine Hutchison (54:20.568)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (54:23.085)
We are worthless because AI works 24-7 and we only have these hours and we have to sleep and how are going to make ourselves and how are we going to feel? How are we going to feel about it? You know what I mean? It's it's wild.

Sabine Hutchison (54:24.78)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. What's wrong with us? What do need to sleep? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And it just makes you right. It actually decreases your confidence because you feel like you're not being as successful because you're not efficient. That's a really good point. But I have to remind myself of that. Yeah. But it's also reminding ourselves.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (54:47.819)
And how you gonna compete?

If we all, people are saying company. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.

Sabine Hutchison (54:57.838)
No, yeah, was just saying that we just need to, that we have to be careful because if we are continuously striving to be, you know, faster, faster, faster, and we're comparing ourselves to others who are doing these five things a day, it doesn't, I don't know if it's a benefit for us. We become less confident because we're constantly, you know, trying to achieve this and be faster and be more efficient. And it has to stop sometime.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (55:25.761)
And companies are embedding AI more and more in their operations to a point that AI now is not only a tool, it's a team member. Well, Humans, have limitations. We have to sleep. We have to take care of things. We have a personal life. These AI solutions, just run in 24-7. How are we going to compete? There is no way to compete against that.

Sabine Hutchison (55:33.838)
Yeah, true.

Sabine Hutchison (55:39.522)
Yeah.

Sabine Hutchison (55:48.77)
There is no way. No, it's so true. We can't compete against it. again, it's getting in touch with yourself. Who are you? What do you bring? And staying true to that.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (55:56.587)
Yeah. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (56:03.341)
Exactly. All right, Sabina, one more time. It has been an amazing conversation. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you with us today. So thank you for taking the time.

Sabine Hutchison (56:14.722)
Yeah, thank you. And actually, the time has zipped by. Speaking of speed, it went very quickly. Thank you.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (56:20.221)
It is, I know. I would like to think that it's because when these conversations flow in a way that it's very interesting, time really flies when you're having fun, they say, right? And I definitely did myself today. So thank you for bringing clarity and the courage to a moment where so many people feel stuck between who they were and who they are becoming.

Sabine Hutchison (56:34.382)
it does, it does, yeah

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (56:47.205)
And if this episode resonated with you, please share it with your friends, with your colleagues, and with anyone that is navigating in their own messy middle. Follow the human protocol. And remember, the code may change, but our humanity is the constant. Thank you, everyone. Talk to you guys next week.

Sabine Hutchison (56:57.954)
Yeah.