Building Online Safety in the Age of AI w/ Kalie Nitzsche | S2E14

Full Episode Transcript

This is the full recorded conversation from The Human Protocol Podcast, published by The Human Protocol Group. © 2026 The Human Protocol Group. Please link to and attribute the original episode when referencing this conversation.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (00:02.222)
Hello, everyone. The future isn't just AI. It is whether we can still trust what we see. Welcome to the Human Protocol, the podcast about staying human while building the future. I am your host, Michael Salomon. Today's episode is about the part of the technology that people still talk about, the part where we are embarrassed to admit happened to us, and the part that can happen to anyone.

This episode is about digital deception in the age of AI, deep fakes, and what it takes to build a mission-driven company as a woman founder in a system that still under-funds women. And my guest today is Kaylee. Kaylee, welcome to The Human Protocol.

Kalie (00:52.333)
Hi there, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to have this conversation with you.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (00:57.75)
Same with me, thanks for taking the time to be with us today. And to get us started, I would like to ask you to tell us a little bit who Kayleigh is. And I would like you to go as personal as you want it to be, just for us to have a sense of who you are, where you have been, and where you're heading next.

Kalie (01:17.943)
Yeah, absolutely. So I am the CEO and founder of Fuzzy Technologies, a tech company that's committed to online safety in an age where modern day internet and digital have just gotten to be in a place where we don't even know what's real anymore. I'm also a mom to a beautiful seven-year-old daughter. And so showing her that women can

have amazing ideas and actually create things from the genesis of my company was from a really bad situation that I encountered. And I wanted to show her that we can pick ourselves up and do something about it, take a sour lemon and make some lemonade out of it. I grew up in Dallas, Texas. So shout out to all my Texans out there. I'm currently located in the Chicago area.

I went to school, played college soccer at Barry University down in Miami, Florida. And I stayed and did my MBA program because when I graduated, it was 2011 and there were no jobs available. So I was lucky enough to work for the athletic department and get my master's. I have lived all over the country. I love traveling and pretty much my work and my kid is my life. But when I do get a chance to

do something outside of that. love yoga, being healthy, mental wellness, et cetera, has been like a really big focus for me for this year. I don't know why, but I've really leaned into the year of the fire horse and all that that's bringing in terms of momentum and acceleration and really just taking that mantra, both for myself personally and with my company.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (03:07.726)
Awesome, thank you for going over that. I think you mentioned to me, but I don't recall if I told you that Berries University is actually in the neighborhood that I live on. I'm basically just like seven minutes from Berries University, that's good to hear. All right, Kayleigh, so the topic today I think is extremely urgent and important for us to talk about. And usually people hide from these stories.

Kalie (03:17.087)
It is, I know!

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (03:36.514)
right, because of the shame that may be associated with it. When things like this happen to people, we are human beings. And usually what we create is a wall, right, because we don't want to talk about this very sensitive information when things like this happen to us. But in your case, I would like to ask you if you can maybe take us back. The moment that you realize you went through it, that you were being deceived, right?

And what did you do to get your confidence and trust back?

Kalie (04:09.475)
Sure. So let me first address the first part of that question, was around the stigma around, you know, deception and fraud scams happening to a person. I'm trying to really get out in front of that and share my story so that one, it's relatable. Scams, fraud, deception is happening at a rate that is really, really, really complex and it's happening. It's exploding. It really is. And to share my story is just to

basically show everybody like, this is happening to everyone. And if it hasn't happened to you personally, you're lucky, but I'm sure it's happened to somebody that you know. And unfortunately for me, I got divorced and I wanted to move up north with my family. after doing all the emotional work through therapy, I wanted to meet somebody.

And the world of the dating apps, I was not familiar with it because just 15 years ago when it was normal to just meet somebody at a bar, we didn't use dating apps to connect. We were actually in person and now we are thrust into this world where if you want to meet somebody, you kind of have to go onto the apps. And I met somebody who I thought was very just amazing and incredible, well aligned with all the things I wanted in life.

And I met this person. This was in an instance of a Tinder swindler or something like that where I had never met them. It was just online communication. I saw this guy two or three times a week. I met his children. He met mine. Everything that he said checked out. mean, he would wear clothing to the job that he said that he had, which he didn't have. mean, everything from an optics perspective checked out.

And after about eight months, I found out that literally everything this gentleman said was a complete and utter lie. And he is the definition of a synthetic identity. He made up a story and he used some truthful components and a lot of lies and created a fictitious individual that I fell in love with. And I just thought, wow, I cannot believe this happened to me.

Kalie (06:28.683)
I've been in tech for 15 years. So I worked for many years in ad tech. And then most recently I was at Adobe as an enterprise sales director for over six years. So I might not be an engineer and in the code, but I certainly understand technology to the degree where I knew that as a society, we just needed to be doing better. We are living in a world that is so tech heavy and we rely on

so much from a day-to-day perspective, whether it's ride shares or ordering food, it doesn't matter. We're using something online, an online tool to do those things and then facilitate an offline experience. And defenses or protection of using that advanced technology just was not catching up to where we are. And I, know, especially with AI, it's an incredible tool for efficiency and productivity.

you know, research and I use it in my day to day all the time. It's literally my personal assistant at work. called chat, GPT chatty because, know, I it's really quickly helping me, move through my day in a, a way that I wasn't able to before. But conversely, it also has accelerated scams and fraud and impersonation and made those things very, very smart and scalable cheap.

What used to be really hard, you you would fake somebody on a one-to-one basis. Now these gamers can basically create a bot and throw something against the wall and try to, you know, harm as many humans as they possibly can. And that's scary. So again, you know, this happened to me. It sucked. It was not fun. It's hurtful mentally. It really messes with you. It makes you wonder like, why am I, did I miss something? Am I dumb? And the answer is emphatically no.

You know, I want to believe that humans are good. I wanted to believe the things that he said were truthful. I wanted to meet somebody. Why would I question this person, especially with the things that I saw with my very own eyes were checking out. So I'm just here to share with anybody that's listening that might've had a similar experience, maybe not even in the dating world, but you know, financially getting scammed or an AI deep fake or whatever that looks like for you that it's.

Kalie (08:52.769)
It's really getting out of control and I built fuzzy technologies to combat a lot of the fraud that's going on in a way that feels very human and just the new status that we could be doing as a modern day society to do peer to peer safety. Like how do I say, I am who I say I am. This is my human badge. I've gone through this verification process and in return, I'm going to expect you to do the same for me.

So that's really the core and impetus of where I started. And on top of that, I built special NIL, name, image, and likeness, monitoring and protection. So if my picture was captured and put into somebody else's random Instagram, I finally now have the information available to go do something about it. So really empowering the human and giving agency to your online self, like we have in our

in real life because at end of the day, I am the same person that you're talking to right now as I am if we were to meet in a coffee shop in Miami shores.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (09:57.26)
Yeah, absolutely. And as you were saying, you one way or the other, you've been in tech. So you have been exposed to technology and this happened to you. So imagine for those and those women and those human beings that, you know, they may not be tech savvy and how easy it for them to jump and fall into this scam. So this type of conversation is needed so people can really understand that this happens every day.

more than what we wanted to happen, right? And we all should have our eyes really wide open to the.

Kalie (10:33.155)
Absolutely. Yeah, and a staggering statistic that I literally just saw a couple days ago from the Economic Times. Women are actually 93 % more likely to be targeted by an AI scam than a man. And the rate in which AI impersonation or scams that are growing is 900 % year over year. And that's very, very scary, especially as a woman, right?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (10:58.808)
Wow.

Kalie (11:00.951)
The vulnerabilities that we have in this space are very vast. You think about the elderly population and even the generation alpha and Gen Z's, are growing up in a world where it's digital only. I my child has had an iPad in her hands since literally she was four months old. She could swipe a little aquarium, you know? How do I, as her parent, protect her? you know, obviously offline protection is so important. We go into a car, we wear a seatbelt, all the things.

Until Fuzzy, we really didn't have a way to protect our kids online. So that's something I'm really excited about from a visionary perspective and where this company is headed.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (11:40.46)
Yeah, and what is exciting to me about this conversation today, it's like the dual use of technology. Technology is used and we see the face to really hurt us. But at the same time, what we're bringing in today's conversation with Fozzi, it's how technology can also save us. Right. And this is what I want to have next with you. So you can tell us a little bit more in detail how a regular human being

can benefit from what Fuzzy offers in times like this.

Kalie (12:17.025)
Yeah, absolutely. So although I've been in tech, I realized that the majority of the consumers out there aren't necessarily tech savvy or have a background in technology. And you absolutely don't need to have any of those characteristics in order to use Fuzzy. I've created an application called Fuzzy Verify, where essentially it's just a signal to everyone on the internet. So think about you find me, Kaylee Nitschy on my LinkedIn.

And in the lower right hand corner, I have a watermark that shows you the cool, you know, Z logo of our fuzzy brand, letting you know, I've gone through this verification, which just is a signal. Okay. I need to go into her profile and click to look at her fuzzy badge, which is essentially just a URL that I've gone through a standardized process that we all recognize to be true. You know, everybody realizes that when we go to the airport and

You know, you might have TSA or you might have clear you've gone through a verification airport, a verification process for your identity there. I'm bringing that verification process to everybody that I interact with to just let you know, I'm a real human. I'm not a bot. I'm a unique person. I'm Kaylee Nietzsche. And my badge is credibility and proof of that.

In addition, we also give you a in-person or a QR code that is regenerating every 90 seconds so that if we do happen to meet in person or think about a new breach driver, I'm only going to get into Uber cars where I know that the driver is fuzzy verified and they know that I'm fuzzy verified. If we start to have some level of, just, you know, if there is, if we can capture the moments in which that people

can be exposed and that there is actual credible knowledge that I was in this person's vehicle, they were the driver, the likelihood that that person, that driver, kidnaps, rapes, sexual assault, all the really terrible headlines that we're seeing around Uber right now, that dramatically decreases. Nobody's going to want to have their identity exposed and then do something extremely nefarious.

Kalie (14:36.813)
fraud happens because people can hide behind a secret veil. And I'm lifting that up in a way that feels just very normal and relatable. So with the badge or with the fuzzy verification, you can actually make it portable. like, hey, you know, could you send this to me on text message, just your badge or, you know, put it in your email signature line, Instagram handle, TikTok, whatever it looks like. It doesn't matter the platform. And I think that's really important to call this out here.

Right now, what controls identity verification is the actual platform that we're on. Does it really mean anything if I'm LinkedIn? No, it means nothing. It means I paid.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (15:11.746)
Right.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (15:15.02)
No. I mean, that's why we have so many bots online. Everyone can create an account. You don't know what's real, really.

Kalie (15:20.192)
Exactly.

And you can pay money for a little beautiful blue check mark next to your name. It doesn't mean anything. It means I had a credit card. So the platforms aren't necessarily incentivized for cracking down on any of this. And if they are, and I hope that they see the need for this eventually, regardless though, people are on multiple platforms a day. We don't just use one social media channel. We have several. We use several convenient apps throughout the day.

Venmo, I mean just think about how often you're on your phone doing work or facilitating communication We should be able to universally have some sort of identity layer or infrastructure that connects us to all of our digital entities and then a way to bridge that to our in real life self and that's what I'm doing with fuzzy in addition to the the badge we do have an additional protection layer for monitoring one's name image and likeness so

Hey, Kaylee, we're just letting you know that this TikTok account just opened up claiming to be you, the CEO founder of Fuzzy. You know, they have 125 followers and, you know, they're doing AI video fakes pretending to be you and saying things that your brand wouldn't necessarily stand for. Here's the exact URL so that I, as the individual, can go there and get it and work with Meta to get it taken down or TikTok or whatever.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (16:48.184)
So you're scanning for likeness, for example, images, voice. Is that how you are coming up with that type of service?

Kalie (16:57.601)
It is so I built proprietary technology and this is one thing I'm really excited about never in a million years that I think that I would have my name on a US patent, but I am patent pending and very soon will have the beautiful certificate. But essentially I've created ADD automated deception discovery and it's a way in which that are fuzzy watchdog is the actual name of the product that's doing the NIL monitoring.

those crawlers are built specifically around looking for deception, fraud, scams of an individual, right? And if we can start to fine tune my own AI models, I'm literally building AI LLMs. Yeah, I'm building LLMs to fight the bad LLMs. It's like robot versus robot and mine are the good robots, right? But with that, we need human intervention. We need

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (17:41.698)
I was going to ask you that next.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (17:47.278)
Yeah.

Kalie (17:55.361)
human responsibility, ethical AI has to be a priority if you're using any type of AI in your business or your technology moving forward. Otherwise, and this is terrifying, know, Elon Musk was just quoted at the UK AI summit saying that artificial intelligence is the biggest threat to civilization that we've had in this generation. That's a scary comment coming from one of the smartest

slash richest men in the world, right? So if we don't start acting and using responsibility and really making sure that the humans are facilitating the AI in a way that's ethical and responsible, that's where you end up in a world of trouble. But I'm proud to say that my AI is, again, we're the good cops over here trying to police the bad.

robot cops, right? And with that, we're really helping actual humans stay safer online in a way that we haven't been able to do before.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (19:05.365)
It's, know, when people ask, what is AI for good? This is what AI for good it is, right? Fighting the bad people that we have out there. And it's all about what you focus your energy on. And I wish, and you probably wish, Kaylee, that we live in a world that we don't need to worry about things like this, but that's not our reality, right? And that's not where we're heading towards. And we need to think about today and what is the future that we're living for your...

get the next generations, what is the world that they're going to be living in? And if that's a way to keep us safer, we like it or not, we need to have that type of technology.

Kalie (19:43.875)
Absolutely, if we think about even just 10 years ago where the internet was in 2016, what we're talking about right now wasn't even an issue, wasn't even a concept of something that people had to feel threatened by. Fast forward to 2026, we don't even know what's real or fake or who is real or fake on the internet anymore. And we need some level of identity infrastructure built in where we can verify that this person is who they say they are quickly, easily.

in an affordable way that lets everybody else know, okay, they've done this verification, I've done mine, at least I know this is a real person. And this is that person, right? I can't unfortunately say like nothing is going to, that individual is never gonna do a bad act, but at least you know who you're dealing with. Whereas right now it's kind of just whack-a-mole where we cross our fingers and hope that whoever we're communicating with online is not lying. And that's really scary.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (20:41.376)
And that's a recipe for disaster because we know the stories that are happening today. Fingers crossed, it's not going to keep us safer. It's like reality.

Kalie (20:47.958)
Yes.

Kalie (20:52.358)
It's not, it's not gonna keep us safer. We actually have to take agency over our own safety as humans. And with fuzzy verification and fuzzy watchdog, you're able to do that for your online safety. This is a crazy statistic that I just literally can't get over. I'm not sure why it's not plastered on all of the news channels. But essentially, Forbes came out at the beginning of the year and said that 20 trillion

dollars will be lost this year alone to online financial scams. So if we looked at that from a GDPR perspective, that makes it the third largest country in the entire world. United States, China, scams. So the need for a technology where we have a very quick identity layer, a trust layer for the internet is paramount and needed.

And I'm so excited to be able to deliver that kind of technology to everybody that's listening.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (21:52.12)
Yeah, I'm excited too. For the times that we're living, we really need to think about how we can leverage technology and platform like yours to help us and keep us safe. It's really the way we see it and the way I see it, Kaylee, it's really verification right now. It's really self-respect. This is really the reality that we're going. And it's not about being paranoid. It's about being real. We need to have a process that will

Kalie (22:17.443)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (22:21.454)
keep us as safe as possible. And in verifications like this, it's really where we're heading. It is probably better than not doing anything, because not doing anything is really not going to keep us any safer. Not at all.

Kalie (22:35.095)
Yeah, no, I totally agree. I like to say that verification sounds very bland and boring, but verification gives you proof, a human proof, right? Proof builds credibility and confidence, and confidence gives you trust. And those are real human emotions that this technology can afford and give you that we haven't had to date. So although you might be listening to this and going, another verification. Wow, that sounds really boring. Actually, from a

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (22:42.796)
Yeah.

Kalie (23:01.485)
peer to peer perspective or just a human human perspective. We should all be doing this for not only ourselves, but for each other. And then if you want to protect yourself, Fuzzy has additional NIL monitoring that can be done to let you know and give you the information that you haven't had before. And it's really cool. I I piloted with some really big names. We just finished our Alpha pilot with Watchdog with Major League Baseball players.

and the Bryce Harper and the Juan Soto's of the world, know, think about how much digital footprints they have online and how big their social media following is. The amount of scams and fraud that athletes, celebrities, musicians, influencers experience is tremendous. And they're almost, you know, if they're online, they're probably like a small micro business. They're monetizing their NIL.

they're distributing it, distributing it in a way. How do we protect that? So that brand, your brand, your reputation, your brand integrity is just important online as it is in real life. So I'm super excited to be working with some of the biggest kind of VIP names there. And I really hope that they are advocates for talking to their social media followers about the importance of this, but encouraging them to go get fuzzy verified because

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (24:04.93)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kalie (24:29.579)
Essentially, if we can get this up and going in a social network effect and accelerate it in a way that feels meaningful and intentional, in the next six months, you could literally just say, like, hey, are you fuzzy verified? And the new normal is if they say no, it's like, well, that's a big red flag for me, right? And I chose this sweatshirt because

It's interesting. feel like the word red flag has like almost gotten to a point where we use it in everyday speak and it does it kind of has lost its original meaning, right? Like, is it a red flag that the guy didn't made you pay for half of the dinner? I don't know. Some people might think it is. Some people might not think it is right. But at the end of the day, we are not a robot and we get to decide what is okay for ourselves and we get to decide when and where we are safe. And I'm hoping that with fuzzy that

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (25:03.0)
Yeah.

Kalie (25:24.161)
It really empowers people to do that.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (25:26.456)
Yeah, I'm hoping that too, because it's really our identity. Unless you live off the grid and you don't socialize and you live in the middle of the country and in the middle of nowhere, you have online presence. Everything we do today, you have a digital presence that someone, trust me, trust us, someone is trying to get your identity. Someone is trying to impersonate you. Someone is trying to get to...

and see how they can still use your identity. So this conversation, while it may sound and look like this is too futuristic for now, like something from the movie, it is really not. It is a way to actually preserve our identity and it probably will determine how we, human, interact moving forward if we want to keep and have.

safer relationships with each other.

Kalie (26:25.943)
Yeah, I mean, I like to think about it like this, right? We all probably have our banking apps on our phone and there is no way you're not putting like the facial passcode, you you have to see my face or enter in your passcode to get into the banking app. There's no way you're not securing that. That's your financial security. We need to start taking that mentality and that level of seriousness around what it means to protect my own identity and not let that get manipulated in a way that can be really harmful and dangerous.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (26:35.426)
Yeah

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (26:55.926)
We use social media every day. We take pictures, we upload videos. I mean, our digital press is already there and there are bad actors that are already trying to steal and hack databases and hack your, you know, your information. So whatever we can do to really preserve and keep as safe as possible, our likeness, our identity, who we are, it's, I see it as a welcome change.

and that's a good use of technology and AI that we should try to continue to amplify more. So, I agree. Now, Kayleigh, there's so much to talk today, and I want to talk to you about what your experience has been as a woman in tech, right? We all know how hard it is for women, especially, and how hard it is to get funding.

and building something and get through all the noise that as an entrepreneur and as a woman in tech, you probably have to go through. So I want to get into this next section and if you can share with us how's your journey have been and what you can share with us about that experience, lessons learned, for example.

Kalie (28:18.817)
Yeah, know, listen, the statistic that less than 3 % of VC funding is going to women is horrendous. I think that it just very under represents the value that women founders are bringing. We're seeing a tremendous trend actually and a shift from women taking traditional VP C-suite roles in corporate.

and actually moving to going and building their own thing, which is amazing. And I love it too. And I'm like, you go girl, you know, because the way in which that women look at business is just different than men and that's okay. And that can be supported and it's really beautiful. I do think that there's just, unfortunately we're in 2026 and we still have to live with this stigma around unequal pay and

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (28:49.496)
Love that, love it. Yeah.

Kalie (29:13.815)
you know, for positions that are rightfully ours that we might get passed up for in comparison to a man. At the end of the day, I don't subscribe to the man-hating club either, right? I'm not saying that I might be a feminist, which I am. I love women. I support us. I'll march with you, but I'm not going to put down a gentleman or a man to make myself uplifted, if that makes sense.

We're all equal. We all bring some value or wits or special uniqueness to whatever it is that we're doing or building. And the fact that women are still experiencing this, even after the Me Too movement and all the things that really tried to help bolster awareness around the unequalness of gender in the workspace, it's really sad.

Me personally, I try to partner and work alongside men that feel the way that I do. I have an ecosystem of incredible guys that work for me, work alongside me, have invested in me because they see the opportunity and the compelling nature that women bring to building something.

I steer clear of the men that still have bias towards women can't do it as well as I can. And I can pretty much at this point in my life clock that in about a minute. So don't get me wrong, it still happens. And also there are women that don't want to see women succeed. And that to me is worse than anything because it's like we're already a minority group. We need to band together. We need to support each other, uplift each other.

And this isn't like a feather in my cap, but this is just a way that I try to help other women. If I see an Instagram story and a founder is like, I am trying to build my network and I'm building this, could you follow me? I'll be like, girl, we see you. On LinkedIn, I try to interact or engage with women founder or women leaders in corporate just to let them know, I see you. You're grinding just like we all are.

Kalie (31:37.281)
Although it's difficult and it certainly puts...

Kalie (31:43.587)
I think we have a harder course or a harder road traditionally, right? And the statistics and the data support that. I just keep going. And I know it's so trite to say those two words, but I literally have probably met with close to 200 investors now at this point, and that's not an exaggeration. And I have heard no a lot. I hear no.

99 out of the 100 times. But at the end of the day, I've still raised almost $4 million. Why? Because I keep going. And I find the people that believe in me. I have women investors and I have men. And I'm building something that is very gender, you know, agnostic. It's for everybody. If you have a digital footprint or a digital identity, you need fuzzy, regardless if you're a guy or a girl.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (32:31.65)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (32:38.796)
Right. And I was going to ask you, and you just answered in a way the question that I was going to ask you, Nes, because you raised seven figures already. And what could you share, right, with, for example, other women founders or even founders at all, right? Because being a founder takes great. You say you have had probably 99 % of nods when you talk with founders and raising money.

But your greed, your determination, you kept going. And at the end of the day, I really think that when you are a founder, that's really what's to make a difference because you may have a number of doors that are closed until one opens for you. It's that one opportunity that you need when you're a founder.

Kalie (33:27.765)
Yeah, and that opportunity takes a long time and a lot longer than we all wish that it would, right? I would say I really, since leaving the corporate world and being an entrepreneur and starting my own company, I've committed so much intentionality to my own mental health. So for example, pre-fuzzy, I was not doing these things, but now I wake up and I have like a moment or

I do 10 minutes of meditation in my bed, even before I get out of bed, thinking about just positive thoughts for the day, what I want to accomplish, the way in which that I'm going to have an attitude that's positive. And I'm going to look at this day as a new day, even though yesterday might've been the world's worst day, right? Where I'm really trying to wake up with an open mind and just really centered for the day.

I've recommitted to getting myself to the gym at first, know, the first two years of doing this, my excuse was, well, I don't have enough time. And I literally don't have enough time, but I make time because if it's important to you, you should make time for it. So I'm actually, I was at the gym this morning listening to one of your podcasts. So I'm trying to find a way to, you know, kill two birds with one stone.

There's a way to do it, but that kind of endorphin lift really helps me. I take a break during my day and I'll meditate for another 10 minutes and make sure that my afternoon is just as productive and successful as it was in the morning, et cetera. So commitment to mental health, going to therapy if I need it, yoga, my gosh, that has saved me. It's really important because it is really difficult to be told no.

on something that you love almost as much as your child. And to be told like, this is an ugly baby in a polite way, it's tough. And I'll be honest with you. So I left Adobe March of 2025, so a year ago. And I walked into a full-time role at Fuzzy with no pay, zero, no health benefits.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (35:20.526)
Hmm. Hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (35:25.934)
Mmm.

Kalie (35:45.315)
And I did that for seven months as a single mom. And that's really terrifying. Now, luckily for me, I knew that that day was coming. So financially, I was able to put myself in a position to support doing that. And a lot of people probably can't do that. I'll just be really honest. I mean, it was a tough summer last year. I'll tell you that much. But you just have to really, you have to know that you're gonna give up a lot, but you're gonna gain so much more.

And that's why I keep going.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (36:17.386)
And I'm happy that you're keeping it as real as it gets because for people that are going to be listening and watching this, it's not about switching career and just leaving your job, you know, and you like it or not, at least it's a paycheck that you know that is going to come every month. Getting and as a founder, you really don't know when the sun is going to shine for you in a way, right? And so you need to try to plan as much as possible.

right? At least for a few months or a year, whatever that time is going to take. But be mindful that this is also not easy, that you're going to receive a lot of no's. And it's hard. We are human beings at the end, right? Kaylee, it's hard to receive a no when we believe so much in something and not take it personal. And that's the part that I always also try to tell people.

which is sometimes the no is not about you, and especially if you are a founder, the no may not be about your product, it's just that it doesn't work for the founder, but not taking it personal, I think it's key for you to keep going because you're still believing in your mission.

Kalie (37:29.411)
100%. And I, one of the things that I've really gotten into is reading and just immersing myself in business books and trying to be the best leader that I can. Cause I've never even been in a, in a role like this. and one of the best pieces of advice that I have, that I read that I'm now trying to practice myself is I don't get too excited when things are going really well. And I try not to beat myself up hard when things are going really bad. And I try to stay,

just consistent and steady because to your point, every day I'm like in a raft on an ocean that I've never been on before, where I don't know if it's going to storm or my raft's gonna pop and the sharks are gonna come, or maybe I get saved by an oil tanker that's floating by literally zero idea, right? And I need to be okay with the unknown. And for somebody that's a type A personality with like,

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (38:07.342)
Yes.

Kalie (38:28.547)
probably slight OCD, that's not easy. Unknowing and not having a clear path to, okay, if I do this, then this will happen. There's none of that. And you have to be okay knowing that as long as you keep going and believe in what you're doing and just in your heart and in your gut, pay attention to when you need to make a shift or a pivot.

The biggest mistakes that I think I've seen other founders do that I have not let get into my kind of leadership role. I'm not married to one idea. If it's not working, we're moving to something else. Even if it was mine, and it probably was, I'll admit, be the first person to admit, hey guys, this was not smart. This was not the right decision. We need to move fast another direction. The trends are pointing this way.

Don't just keep doing what you're doing because that was your idea. Exactly. So like the ability to pivot is so important. It's not a reflection of just bad ideas or not knowing what you're doing. It's a reflection of your ability to be flexible and build something that is sustainable for where we're going as a society.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (39:28.46)
and expecting a different result,

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (39:50.082)
Yeah, I think this advice, Kaylee, it's really important for everyone. The future is not about perfection, especially in businesses. It's about how quick you can change curves and try something. When something doesn't work, it's really, you need to change and you need to try to adapt quick. And that's what is going to make it or break it, right? It's like how fast you are to recover from where you were.

Kalie (40:11.011)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (40:18.262)
and they start trying something new. And I think sometimes where people and some business owners, for example, and founders, they may spend longer time than needed trying to continue to try on the same idea that at the end of the day is probably not gonna work. And that's what I love about this advice that you just gave.

Kalie (40:37.741)
And I mean, let's double down there, right? We can't afford to move slow. We live in a world that moves fast and urgent and interactions are made in real time. If you as a leader are not capable of recognizing that that wasn't the best move and really quickly pulling the steering wheel to a different direction, you will flounder. Technology will just eat you up because we're moving so fast.

You almost had me to take that mentality of like how quickly tech is growing and exploding and getting more advanced and be able to adjust accordingly. Otherwise, unfortunately, you'll be left in the dust.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (41:20.118)
And given that flexibility to the organization and the culture that you are building, that, it didn't work, that's fine, we'll try something else, right? That's really key for building a successful culture so people are not afraid of trying new things. Because at the end of the day, innovation comes from trying and failing until you find the right approach to what you want to achieve. So I think this is also key for businesses and founders to, you

If it didn't work, that doesn't mean that you failed. It's just part of life. Just try something else until you find the direction and the way of getting to where you want to go.

Kalie (42:01.495)
Yeah, I mean, I'll give you a perfect example of just when I as a leader had just raised my hand and said, this isn't it, folks. We got to, we got to pivot last April. I, I use Dolly Parton as my, as my kind of my, my North star, because she has a saying about you can't change the, and I'm going to butcher the quote, but essentially you can't change the direction of the wind, but you can change your sales. Right. And essentially I had.

spent almost a year. So a year is a long time building something that I thought was the right move. the first iteration of Fuzzy Verify was an app to say whether a person was a good person, not whether a person was a unique person. And the mistake was, in order to say someone's a good person, you have to rely on a ton of third party data. You have to work with every single state

and get public records, et cetera, et And as a tech leader and in technology in general, you can't control third party data sets at all. They're just brought into your system. So the results that we're rendering were inaccurate. And for somebody that's building a tech app, can't say, you know, Joe Schmo or whatever, you know, is a great guy when he's on the registered sex offender list. So.

I made the decision last April, we were on the app store, ready to go, ready to lock and load. I had just been at South by Southwest as a speaker. We're launching, right? And I said, no, we're not ready. This product is not ready. is not what I have. I'm building my entire life around. And if that means I need to delay things, that means I need to delay things. And also we recognize the need. We don't have like a flywheel effect here for a consumer app. Who's going to help?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (43:57.07)
you

Kalie (43:58.221)
Who's gonna help get this going? that's why I was at, know, fate has a way of working here. I believe in God, believe in, know, in divine timing. And I was at a dinner with several professional baseball players. I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm not, that's not like my normal group either, right? It was an opportunity that I had and they're like, your building is cool. Like, how can we support you? And I, you know, told them and they're like, you know, awesome, love it.

But it doesn't, we need this. And that's when I started to get the idea of fuzzy watchdog because as a player, they were experiencing all of this NIL impersonation. I'm like, well, I've already have like 80 % of that built around that ADD, automated deception discovery. So if I just pause or shift gears a little bit, I can actually build a massive social network with a flywheel effect, having literally guys like, you know, um,

Alec Bohm tell his fans, hey guys, go get fuzzy verified with a human badge. So that's where I am. And that decision was hard. Like I just said, I wasn't making money last year, right? I was expecting, it was a tough day. It was absolutely 100 % the right move. It was also incredibly difficult to know, okay, wow, my summer is completely opposite.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (45:06.664)
I'm sure that was a tough day for you. I'm sure.

Kalie (45:24.801)
of what I thought it was going to be in the best way, because where I am now, we have so much momentum and have built incredible technology that just make a ton of sense with where the advancements in AI have gone. So I'm super proud of that, but it was difficult. so making those pivot decisions isn't easy. I'm not out here saying, you're not going to feel anything from it. We're all humans at the end of the day, but

Recognize it, understand it, make a plan and move and move quickly.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (46:00.174)
That's the vision, right? It's like, especially when you know where you want to get next, that sometimes you have to make those decisions if you're not ready. And I think you did the right, you made the right decision. It wasn't easy. It probably wasn't easy. A lot of thoughts came through your head, probably. Yeah, probably. But when you look back, now you probably feel proud that yes, we did, you made the right call back then.

Kalie (46:24.003)
100%. And I just remember getting on with my team, literally the day we're doing like our, I mean, we've been working on a go to market for six months, right? And I, we do our team call and I said, no, we're not doing this. This is the new plan. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (46:34.924)
Because it's not only you, Kaylee, right? It's also the team and the people that are working with you that have invested so much energy and they are so passionate, probably as passionate as you are on this project. then you put a stop and you say, we're not going. Yeah. Yeah.

Kalie (46:46.979)
100%.

Yeah, it was really hard to do that, not only for myself, but for them too, because I knew how much they had put into what we had built and created to get the original fuzzy in market, but it just was not the right fit. I wanted to create a market category that was necessary and an infrastructure around identity and that just wasn't it. So telling my team was really difficult and their faces were stunned.

And we all agree to this day, was, we don't even look back because it was the right decision. And I'm just, one of the things I'm the most proud of is the team that I've assembled. They're fantastic and they're smarter than me where they're, you know, have their core competencies. And I think that this is where I don't understand leaders that want to be the smartest or talk the most or, you know, want to own everything. I don't understand that because I want to surround myself with

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (47:42.488)
Yeah, I agree.

Kalie (47:47.881)
smarter people. So yeah, exactly. I'm the quarterback. I'm not the, you know, I'm sorry, my NFL knowledge here isn't like, but I'm not the, I'm the quarterback. I'm not the cornerback. I'm not the linebacker. Those guys do their thing so good. I'm kind of, you know, telling everybody what the play is, but at the end of the day, I rely on them to do their job because they do it so well. And I have no problem delegating.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (47:48.642)
We sit in the middle, right? We sit in the middle. That's where we sit.

Kalie (48:17.463)
I honestly, I have no idea how some of these leaders do it where they're doing everything. I have no issue with doing every job, whether that's administering the emails or doing all the admin stuff and then doing all the strategic stuff. I have no issue doing any job, but delegating it. I don't understand where people have such a difficult time because I have hired these amazing people to fill.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (48:45.528)
For the reason, right?

Kalie (48:47.031)
to fill these roles, to do these specific set of tasks that they're already really good at and I'm subpar maybe. So why would I have an issue? Now, I'm always aware and have a pulse on what's going on in the business, but I let pretty much my team drive their own lanes as the CEOs of their own business because I want them to feel empowered and have a ton in the over the decisions that they're making when it comes to the things that they're owning within the company. And they're awesome.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (49:12.398)
And that's the type of culture that it's really, going to take the whole organization to the next level. Because when people feel empowered, I think something shifts in them and that they feel, you know, more motivated to really try to make decisions and bring with more ideas that are going to be at the end of the day benefits the whole company and product.

Kalie (49:19.938)
hope so.

Kalie (49:37.187)
Absolutely. At the end of the day, success and failure are reflection of me. But the only way that I'm going to have the kind of success that I want is to surround myself with those that are better than I am and helping me learn and grow in those areas. I don't want to continue to be stagnant. I don't want to not learn. I want to continue to evolve and get better. And that's why I'm reading these books.

I didn't subscribe to so many different podcasts, et cetera. And it's just important to stay abreast of these things so that you don't, don't, your brain doesn't rot. You gotta keep going. You gotta learn, you know, I'm TMI, but I'm almost 40 and there's a lot that I don't know. And I want to know as much as I possibly can. So yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (50:30.37)
And the world is changing so fast. It's nonstop. Every day there's something new. And for us to keep up with everything, the only way we can try to, it's just listening to people different than us, trying to make sure that all that knowledge and all that information comes to us in ways that can augment what we know and where we're coming from.

Kalie (50:34.403)
Yes.

Kalie (50:56.323)
Absolutely.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (50:58.046)
And Kaylee, just heading into the final section of our conversation today, it's basically some questions that I have for you. And I want to ask you for the first one to, know, for regular people and human beings, individuals trying to stay safe online in this AI era, what should be your one non-negotiable habit? What would you recommend people?

Kalie (51:28.771)
And this is what I like to say, verify before vibes. Right?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (51:32.014)
I love that. my God. We love dice first for the most part.

Kalie (51:37.411)
I mean that by vibes this is you're a vibe your shirts of vibe, right? Okay, we live in a culture of vibes. I get it my seven-year-old says the word verify before vibes Proof is sexy proof is sexy. Like what I always say is like safety is sexy proof is sexier, you know, I honestly think that That's a non-negotiable moving forward verify you are who you claim to be

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (51:39.95)
Hahaha!

Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (51:51.337)
I love it.

Kalie (52:06.273)
and you can have access to me, whether that's future engagement or an interaction, a job interview, insert whatever experience. But if you're not willing to do this upfront at the very beginning of our online meeting, I don't want anything to do with it moving forward because I don't trust that what you're saying is true.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (52:28.93)
Yeah, and it's also remind me on how important our energy is, right? We always say, protect your energy. You really protect your energy by, you know, knowing and verifying who you are surrounding yourself with, right? This is really no other way. So, agree.

Kalie (52:36.941)
Mm-hmm.

Kalie (52:48.973)
Yeah, take control back of your life. You don't have to just cross your fingers anymore. There are tools out there that you can use to feel like you have agency over your own safety. So if I could make a rule for anybody, assume I take the presidential role today, I'm in the Oval Office, I don't know how Congress is gonna react to verify before vibes, but that's the one I'm doing.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (53:17.826)
Well, this is a perfect segue for the next question, which is what safeguards do you think it's urgent right now? Why would you like governments and policy makers focusing on all these topics?

Kalie (53:31.469)
Yeah, you know, it's sad for the United States because we're actually not the leader in the online safety category. Countries like Australia, for example, are leading the way. They just enacted a law that says that nobody under the age of 16 can have a social media account. Whoever passed that bill or whatever they call it in Australia, that is so smart and so amazing. The amount of

mental health disorders, sextortion, all of the terrible sexual abuse that's going on from an exploitation perspective with kids. They don't need to be subjected to any of that until they actually have the brain capacity to be able to make smart decisions. My kid, she's going to be pissed, but she's not getting Instagram or Facebook. She's not even getting a phone until she could drive. Now, she doesn't know that. She would freak out because she's seven.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (54:13.386)
I know.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (54:26.307)
and

Kalie (54:28.045)
friends have phones. I'm like a helicopter parent when it comes online. We don't do YouTube kids. don't. And because I'm just well, I probably because I know what can happen. Right. So kudos to Australia, UK and the EU aren't far behind their GDPR rules are far more advanced than ours are ours being the United States in terms of private information for individuals. You know, I'm speaking with several investors and

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (54:31.822)
Thank you.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (54:36.91)
Yeah.

Kalie (54:58.071)
businesses that want to support the expansion of fuzzy overseas because they see the value immediately because their governments are mandating these types of policies, mandating age verification, mandating that they do certain activities or safeguard their data in a way that is meeting government standards. I myself have gone to Washington DC a few times to work with lawmakers to raise awareness around this problem.

you know, the people that I've met with, state representatives, senators, they're very interested, but we moved really slow and it was really interesting. I was on a podcast and.

the conversation shifted to in 1776, our founding fathers built the US Constitution to have a governing set of laws. So civilization or a society could behave in a way that was good or positive. There were rules in place. So if you did this, it was against the law, you got in trouble. The online era that we live in today needs literally a Bill of Rights, right?

We need 100%, like we need as a society, government to take control and say, these are the rules. And if you act outside of these rules, not in a dictator way, but in a way that encourages civilization and humans to interact in a way that's for the primary good of humanity, et cetera.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (56:13.506)
Just for that, just for this era. Absolutely.

Kalie (56:41.077)
We need them to step up and say, this is something that's mandated or these are the rules. So that if you do step out of those lines, if you do mischaracterize yourself online, if you do, advertise yourself online, it's a, it's a penalty. It's against the law right now, scammers, fraud, whatever, if they do something and they impersonate or they create a synthetic identity, like with what happened to me, nothing happens. That guy.

is still on the dating apps, even though I reported him to every single platform I could possibly think of. People have seen him on there. So it's, again, it's just very myopic and focused to the dating apps, and this is a much bigger problem. But if the government would come in and say, hey, if you misrepresent yourself online,

It's against the law. We're going to do something about it. You can't misrepresent yourself in real life. I can't go to the airport and be somebody else.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (57:43.224)
Yeah, you know, you're absolutely right. And what I see the problem, especially here in the US, Kaylee, for you to make laws, you at least need to understand how something work, right? And I don't think our Congress understand the internet. They don't.

Kalie (58:03.743)
Zuckerberg is literally being called to Congress almost every week to explain how things are working. It's like some of the

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (58:09.134)
And I think every time he leaves, they're more confused about my work.

Kalie (58:13.987)
They're like, I understand it less than the first time he was here. So the people that are in place, God bless them, they're good at maybe other things or other policies around politics and that kind of stuff. I don't even want to get in that realm. But when it comes to digital technology and being safe online, we need somebody, a government-positioned appointed person to step up and say, this is my role, and these are the new rules, folks, because

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (58:17.014)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (58:24.854)
Yeah. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (58:41.195)
Yeah.

Kalie (58:41.737)
no longer are we living in this wild west online that's happening and we're going to do something about it. So I'm trying to gain that energy and momentum up in DC. I've been there a couple of times, but I'll be honest with you. It's frustrating.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (58:44.899)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (58:57.386)
I can't imagine. I can only imagine because we see it from this side. Imagine you've been there, right? Multiple times.

Kalie (59:04.245)
Yeah, and I'm just like, no, this is really important. You know, and I'm not a policy maker. I'm not a Capitol Hill cheering person. That's not me. I've never done any of that before, but I feel so strongly about this problem that I'm willing to become and I'm trying my best to be a subject matter expert in this space so that I can create and generate awareness to how truly large this problem is. And what do we need to do from a

regulation or policy procedure perspective to make some of this stuff illegal or at least have ramifications in place.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (59:40.504)
Well, keep trying, don't give up, right? We need that type of energy. Keep going, anything that we can do to help. I think this topic is extremely important for us right now, for the future generation. So thank you for all you and all the visibility that you're bringing into it. This is much needed, Kaylee.

Kalie (59:43.561)
Thank you. I keep going, you know, like that's all I can do.

Kalie (01:00:04.205)
Thank you, thank you so much. Yeah, I'll do it for the people because we deserve to have the government step in and say, hey, you know what? We recognize that the internet is a very unlawful place that needs rules and policies so that people can start acting in a way that is just for the better of society.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (01:00:26.542)
Absolutely. And thank you one more time, really, for turning a painful personal experience into a fight for protection for others. I really think that's the beauty of all this story. So thank you for taking the time and being with us today, Kaylee.

Kalie (01:00:45.059)
Thank you so much for having me. I've had a really, really great time and I look forward to hopefully talking to you again soon.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (01:00:51.042)
Yeah, sounds good. And if this episode helped you rethink online trust, share it with a friend, a parent, a founder, or someone back in the dating world. Follow the Human Protocol and talk to you all next week. Take care, everyone.

Kalie (01:01:06.391)
Yeah, and can I just share a couple of lasting thoughts on my end? Thank you so much. So I do have my own personal podcast as well. It's called Just Lookin' Out No G. And I have other people that have been scammed and mental health experts in the space if you want to check that out. I'd love for you to check out what I'm building from a technology perspective, fuzzywatchdog.com. Follow us on Instagram at trustfuzzy.com.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (01:01:08.276)
yes. Yes, yes, please.

Kalie (01:01:34.431)
or me personally at Kaylee Nitchey. The name is difficult to spell. So look it up in the bio, but I really hope that we can connect as well. So thank you so much for the opportunity.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (01:01:47.03)
Yeah, you got it. And once we put the episode and the promo out there, I'm going to make sure that I put all that information as well on all our socials. Okay. Thank you one more time.

Kalie (01:01:56.663)
Thank you.

Okay, thank you so much. This has been fun. Have a great weekend. Okay, talk soon, bye.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL (01:02:02.755)
the AppU as well.