AI Can Copy Your Face—But Not Your Brand | Joe Fang

Full Episode Transcript

This is the full recorded conversation from The Human Protocol Podcast, published by The Human Protocol Group. © 2026 The Human Protocol Group. Please link to and attribute the original episode when referencing this conversation.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (00:01.174)
In a world where AI can generate your resume, your headshots, and even your next LinkedIn post, what's left that's truly you? What makes someone real, not just visible, in the age of AI? Welcome to The Human Protocol, the podcast about staying human while building the future with AI. I am your host, Mykel Salomon. We are defining a moment. Algorithms can simulate appearance, but not essence. AI can mirror your voice, but not your values. The question is in whether AI will change personal branding. It is whether we'll still recognize ourselves when it does. Every week, we explore the intersection of technology, leadership, and purpose on covering how values, meaning, and impact endure in a world rewritten by code. Today, I'm joined by Joe Fan.

an executive portrait photographer and brand strategist who help leaders, founders, and professionals stand out with images that inspire confidence and build trust through authenticity. Joe's clients include city leaders like Plano Mayor John Muntz, and executives from companies like Discover, Amazon, and Toyota. Joe, my friend, welcome to The Human Protocol.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (01:26.528)
Awesome. We're very excited about having you as well. Thanks for taking the time to have this conversation with us today. And to kick things off, Joe, I would like to ask you something I ask every single guest on the show for our audience to get to know you guys a little bit more on the personal side. So when we remove the LinkedIn bio, everything the internet knows about Joe, who is Joe at his core?

Joe Fang (01:54.252)
well, that's a great question. All of that. I am a father of two now just found out that we're expecting our second. Thank you. Thank you. family to me is extremely important. it is my foundation is my why, you know, why do what I do. I want to set an example, you know, for my, for my kids growing up, right. And for them to bring to

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (02:03.522)
Congratulations!

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (02:14.606)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Fang (02:23.986)
their world and share with their community the value of just being confidently themselves. Going out there, explore, build opportunities, build genuine relationships and connections. You know, I'm somebody who loves to travel. I will try different foods that's put in front of me. You know, like to live through experiences and you know, I oftentimes always do everything I can to bring my kid, my wife along with me.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (03:01.526)
That's awesome, Joe. Thanks for sharing with us. And I'm sure they're going to have the dad and someone to look up to when they grow and be proud of everything that you're building for your family, which is a beautiful thing. I appreciate you sharing that with us. And I want to ask you in this whole new era that we are heading into with AI transforming.

the way we live, right? The way we look and what's real and what's not. And for this conversation that we are about to have today, I'm curious to hear from you, Joe, what inspired you to focus on, to focus your craft on executive photography while you think that's still important, especially in this new era? And regarding the personal branding, why personal branding in your opinion?

it's more important than ever.

Joe Fang (04:00.452)
Yeah, you know, I like to make it clear that my work is for any professional, you know, no matter the level they're at, as long as they value their own brand, they want to, you know, take it to the next level. They're not there to settle, right? That's where the value comes in. If it's just another thing on your checklist, then it's different. That's kind of where AI, for example, AI headshot can potentially come in. And I believe

AI headshots here to stay. It has its place just like a mini industry. We want to integrate it as part of our process, ideally process, not the product or the result itself, right? Like, know, AI headshots is great if you're stuck in a bind and you're somebody have requested your headshot the very next day, there is no way you're finding a photographer to get that done, right? That's where AI headshot is beneficial. But if you're trying to

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (04:44.536)
Hmm.

Joe Fang (05:00.326)
to make a difference in your life, in your career, you want to show yourself fully. And I think that message has resonated a lot with leaders who dare to stand out and who have a need to stand out. But I've also worked with a lot of people, whether they're early in the career or they're middle management, but they have that goal, they want to reach, they understand, they want to be seen in a certain way, then that's where I come in and help out.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (05:29.666)
Awesome. So in a way, you help people and human beings to achieve their goals and to take things to the next level, whatever that next level is, with your craft, right? Which is something that is extremely important today. Because AI can replicate the loot, but it cannot replicate your light. And that's where your craft and your talent, Joe, comes into play. And from what I've seen,

it is important for you to highlight and bring that energy that you see in people via your headshots, right? So how does that process work and why do you think it's important?

Joe Fang (06:14.436)
I think it's important because you want to build relationships based on truth, based on authenticity alignment, right? You know, one of my earliest client, I'm just going to give him a shout out, Ryan Minzer. He's a CTO over here in DFW. I remember him well, because early on I was just trying to be another standard headshot photographer out there. And, you know, I'm like, okay,

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (06:22.264)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Fang (06:44.28)
I'm gonna pose this person this way, that way, that way, do everything the same process, run people through. You it became very transactional. Ryan gave me a good reminder that everybody is uniquely different and you have to that daring attitude stand out for people to remember you, but also understand who you are because, you know, do you want to be hired and stuck in a place because you're trying to fit in, but you're not really being yourself?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (06:51.181)
Hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (07:13.837)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Fang (07:14.13)
and you're butting heads with people every day because the values different, know, the mission's different, right? Yeah, so if people can see who you are right away, make that determination and don't be afraid because, you know, one of my mentor told me, I'm not there, I'm not gonna be there for everybody. Not everybody's gonna like me or like my style of work, right? And Ryan basically told me that as well, I, through our time together in the studio because

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (07:20.129)
Hmm. Yeah.

Joe Fang (07:44.003)
He came in and he ended up with professional headshots of him wearing a fedora with dramatic lighting, of him wearing a cowboy hat. I literally asked him, said, Ryan, you're a CTO, are you sure? He said, yeah. He's like, that's me, that's surely me. He said, if people don't like what I bring, I'd rather not force myself into that situation.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (07:55.768)
Ha ha ha!

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (08:01.624)
Mmm.

Joe Fang (08:13.906)
you know and if somebody loves me when they see their see my photo and they want to engage further then I'm all down for it

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (08:24.514)
There's no run on just bringing your authentic self that will always connect with people, no matter where you're coming from. That level of authenticity is what people are looking up to. That is rare more and more, right? We don't see that.

Joe Fang (08:42.018)
More and more. mean, a lot of how we think our values, what we believe, you know, is based on our experience, how we're raised. You know, I was raised in a traditional setting where it's like, you know, we were an immigrant family, right? You know, I do believe in the value of fitting in, but at the same time, not to the point where you're suppressing yourself, right? You know, my, my parents, you know, my background is in healthcare, for example. And, you know, I do enjoy working

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (09:03.907)
Hmm.

Joe Fang (09:12.242)
and working for others and helping others. so healthcare is not a bad career choice for me, but it was my first and foremost. And my parents encouraged me to go that route because it's stable, right? It's stable job, good income. It's understandable, but deep down inside, I've always loved those driven by passion with a fire, with a daring attitude and gonna go out there and do something for them.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (09:21.304)
Right.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (09:27.81)
Right. It's understandable, right? Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (09:41.058)
Yeah. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (09:46.688)
Interesting, interesting. And curious, because part of it is the artist in you, right? Because I truly believe that there is art in what you do and the time that you dedicate to every person to highlight the best out of it. But how has technology helped and evolved on your relationship with it?

throughout the year.

Joe Fang (10:19.28)
I think that it's been really good overall. If you're looking at the big picture, think I'm loving it because even with AI, like it's improved the efficiency of the process, but it you got to know what you're doing, right? You have to be one that leads to it.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (10:36.814)
We have to guide it, right? Yeah.

Joe Fang (10:39.376)
Yes, we're not letting it tell us what to do, you know, I've seen AI programs out there that says throw us a picture We're just gonna do the entire edit for you. Just like that BAM done, right? But they don't have we need to maintain the creativity the true artists. We need to maintain the control of the creativity We need to understand what we're trying to do the emotions. We're trying to evoke You know in the image without

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (11:00.152)
Yeah, I agree.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (11:07.796)
man, that's so important, Joe. The emotions on it. Right? Oof.

Joe Fang (11:11.79)
Yes, it tells your story, right? Whether it's a family photo, newborn, your wedding, even your professional headshot and executive portrait, I want it to tell your story, your battles, your experience, celebrate your success, you know, or even just show people where you're trying to get to. Otherwise, without it, it's just another image of your face and that's it.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (11:37.77)
It's just the same image that we see over and over again, right? It's a and you mentioned something that is key to all this conversation is AI will never be able to understand our emotions or even translate it the way we are feeling it, because it is a feeling and it is a feeling that only us human beings can actually experience. And the emotion side of especially on the work that you do.

it's visible on the finish work, right? We can actually feel whatever that conversation you had with your guest because it actually translated into that beautiful image that we all see from your work. So I really think that keeping the handling and the creativity part of what we do, that's still...

a human aspect of that we need to keep at all costs. If we want to continue to keep what your brand, my brand is, and we own that part, right?

Joe Fang (12:49.548)
Exactly. You know, if you think about AI headshots, how do they create them? Right? They're trained based on the headshots that's been that's existing.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (12:59.848)
that is out there, right?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (13:15.694)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (13:29.322)
It's a, AI won't ever understand context the way we understand it, the way we feel it. And that's a extremely important part of any creative process is you understanding what is the context and where you want to land. How do you want to see it? How do you want to get there? That's still us for the most part. And, and, and I think we should continue to fight for it to keep it.

to keep our humanity in the middle of all these creative processes. And I was reading the other day something that stuck with me, which is it was an article that I was reading out that over 60 % of social users say they no longer trust profile images without human context because

of the AI fatigue that we're seeing. And I see it, you see it, there has been an over reliance on AI to build images that they really don't look like they're human behind it.

Joe Fang (14:47.651)
Mm-hmm. Images or articles, right? Like, you don't know what you're reading or seeing. Yeah, you just, you don't know if it's real or not. It's, I think it's a dangerous thing. It really is.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (14:52.651)
or articles.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (15:03.136)
It is, especially with people overreliant and not understanding that what they're putting out there is really themselves, but not really because the image, it's really not themselves. And that have an impact on how authentic you're going to look in front of people, especially online.

And I also was reading the other day that 82 % of professionals believe authenticity has become more, more, important than ever in really building this future together.

Joe Fang (15:43.026)
Thank

Yeah, I'm part of the 82 % man. know, authenticity is something that's gonna keep humanity alive. You know, it's gonna keep us who we are. I don't want it to get to the point where we only know it's real because we're standing in front of that person five feet or two feet away, right? And one important thing that I think is super, super important is to have the, to have the confidence, the guts to stand out.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (16:01.304)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Fang (16:14.407)
and be like, hey, I'm not perfect. Like, yeah, inherently, we want our photos to be perfect. We want our work to be perfect. Right? We want people to think that we're perfect human beings. But I think it's there's so much strength and so much value in being imperfect. That's what makes us different. That's what makes us human. We have to dare to kind of show that in a sense. Right? Like I

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (16:18.241)
Right.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (16:39.297)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Fang (16:44.667)
Even in the photo, I mean even before AI it was all about the filters You know and you know, I try to tell people I said look let's not airbrush your skin too heavily. We don't want it to Not look like you, you know, yes, we all we can be concerned with our wrinkles once we hit our 40s You're like, my gosh, I can't believe I look like this, you know, but Yeah, it's us. It's us and and there's there's it's so funny because like I

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (17:06.358)
Yes, it's us.

Joe Fang (17:14.277)
have 20 and 30 year olds coming in here saying please make us look older then I got the 40s and 50s saying please make us look younger and then the 60s saying I don't care anymore I don't give a but but think about you know the 20s and early 30s coming in saying make us look older like why is that right so

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (17:37.91)
Yeah. It's like, who do we want to be at the end of the day? Right? And are we really enjoying every phase that we're going through? Because it sounds like lately humanity and these new generations, they are not satisfied with the way they look or the way they are today. And then they next to the next decade, and they also don't want to be that way. it's like, what are we doing here?

Joe Fang (18:04.913)
There is no shortcut, right? And there's value in time, value in experience. Yes, you might have some wrinkles and all that. You look a little older than you like, but you bring something to the table. People want to engage with you. You have a job for a reason. You're getting a promotion for a reason. It's not because you have wrinkles or not.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (18:31.348)
Absolutely.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (18:35.912)
It's probably because people saw something in you that is very unique to you. And that's what we should embrace more and more. But it's also part of this whole social media conversation, Joe. They see people looking perfect online. And people are just trying to follow trends and the way they see influencers and other people in the internet that at the end of the day, they're using a lot of filters. And that's really not how they look.

or even sometimes sound. And I think this is part of why we see humanity not satisfied with the way they look, the way they see themselves, the way they are feeling about themselves, right? And when we first discuss about having this conversation today and say, should we talk about that we need it out there? And that's where we landed on, and that's the episode title, which is

human first personal branding in the age of AI. And that's what we need to talk about more, who you are. And you only can create your brand if you truly understand who you are first.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (19:51.354)
Absolutely. And do you help those people only if they understand who they are first? I mean, you can help them navigate and try to find out who really they are. But that should start with us. Do you see that way?

Joe Fang (20:13.457)
You know, I have for the longest time, for example, I held off on my own headshot. Right. And just because I remember who I was, you know, five years ago, 15 pounds lighter. Right. But I'm like, you know, I can't, how can I feel the trust if I can't even live that true with myself? Right. And, people aren't going to choose to work with me or not work with me because of my weight. You know, right. And so I still updated my headshot and updated.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (20:28.11)
Hahaha

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (20:38.53)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Fang (20:43.481)
it more. But just showing that confidence and knowing what you bring, that's what's going to attract people, I think.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (20:52.372)
And since you touched on that, it makes me think, do you take your own headshots?

Joe Fang (20:59.515)
Currently I do There is actually so I'm gonna give a shout out to my mentor Daniel Wakefield He's from top to your headshots. He's amazing. He's down there in Miami, Fort Lauderdale actually So he works a lot with people in Miami and Fort Lauderdale It's on my to-do list to go down there and grab one from him sometime

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (21:23.95)
I got it. Yeah, I was curious to see how that relationship you're taking your own head show how that relationship artists and then the guests collide. You know what mean?

Joe Fang (21:37.018)
my gosh, taking my own headshot is really, really interesting. awkward, I think, you know, it could, because when I take the headshots, I'm viewing through the lens finder. I'm trying to get a feel for that person, finding the right moment where it feels right for that split second, bam, capture that shot. Okay. So yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (21:59.638)
I can't imagine. I can't really imagine because those are two different point of views.

Joe Fang (22:04.369)
Correct. So now I'm either setting a timer and I take your head your own headshot. There's two ways right? One is you set your own timer. You get them from the camera. But by the time the timer comes down, you're already expecting it. Your pose, your smile is stiff. It's forced, right? It's very hard. And in a lot of the true smile or expression, it doesn't have to always be a smile and a headshot, right?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (22:27.288)
Right.

Joe Fang (22:30.305)
It comes from within. So I have to, within those three, five second countdown, I have to evoke a certain memory and let my expression come through. Cause if I just stand there and smile and just wait three, two, one, and then it becomes so stiff, right? I would help or I would have my wife help me click the shutter button, but that still is, it's like, you know, it doesn't always work out best because anybody

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (22:52.024)
Yeah.

Joe Fang (23:00.209)
can click the shutter button you know photographers we need to position ourselves as the guide I need to have somebody there behind the camera and engaging with me getting the best out of me because that's what I try to do for my clients right

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (23:16.182)
Absolutely, and that's what I thought on asking how, because I'm sure it's difficult when you are in both positions at once.

Joe Fang (23:23.479)
It is, it is. And, you know, that should be the goal for all the photographers. Otherwise, you're just a machine standing there too hard to click the shutter button. And that's kind of where AI is going to replace, you know, folks like that, right? When it's just simple, repetitive tasks. Well, those are replaceable, unfortunately. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (23:35.694)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (23:43.752)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. agree. And Joe, when we talk about generating content and content creators, and I see a lot of people that they may be visible, right, but not be seen, especially in times of AI-generated content. And I think you also have noticed that, yes, there's a lot of people that are visible.

Now for you to be seen, you have to come up with your authentic self and that's where your personal branding really comes and shines. What are your thoughts on this?

Joe Fang (24:27.163)
Yeah, think it's establishing your own brand. It doesn't mean that you have to be a social media influencer because I've had some professionals come up and say, well, you know, I would like some of these shots. I want to use them, but you know, I'm not trying to be a social media content producer, not trying to be a personality like that. I'm saying you don't have to write, like just share what you want to share of when you want to share it. But as long as you're, you know, showing that you're engaged, you're active and you're out there trying to build

a real relationship, you're out there to give, you know, to bring value to others. You know, and you can only do that through a unique kind of personal brand, professional or, you know, or not, right? You think about all the actual influencers out there who are making a killing because they figured out a way to establish their own brand and they can launch a, you know, an energy drink or, right, or a

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (25:03.214)
Hmm.

Joe Fang (25:27.099)
cookie or burger and people just buy into it because they trust that brand they value that brand there's hype around that brand right if you're relying on AI well anybody can tell AI and replicate who you are and make everything the same you know you're not standing it's all about standing out and finding out who you are

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (25:43.319)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (25:49.836)
Yeah, that is true. And I have some interesting facts that while I was reading to better understand the business side of AI generated headshots and AI generated content, there is a big market out there that is about to continue to grow. And there are some headshots, AI tools that, for example, that they're making over 20 million in revenue.

only last year, right? While at the same time, there has been some research done by Deloitte that found that AI-generated profiles had 45 % lower engagement rate than really genuine unedited images. So while there is a market and people over utilizing those tools, also people are recognizing that, hey,

this is AI generated, I'm not gonna engage as much. So it's like from one side we have people using it, from the other side we have the same people or human beings saying, I don't like this content. So it's kind of a conflict there, huh?

Joe Fang (26:59.25)
Yeah, really is. It's like, it's in our nature, think sometimes to just take the easy way out. Right? here's a weight loss drug. You take it, you can lose 15 pounds. Great. Instead of a strict diet regimen, exercise, good sleep.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (27:09.12)
Yeah, true.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (27:18.594)
That's a very human. That's a very human thing.

Joe Fang (27:22.042)
Yeah, we want things done quick, easy. You know, like I said earlier, right, there are times for that, perhaps, but otherwise invest some time in yourself, right? The most successful people they want to be seen for who they that I've met, they want to be seen for who they really are.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (27:42.339)
Yeah.

Joe Fang (27:43.479)
this kind of that attitude that they carry over to everything they do. You know, if you're just trying to find the easy way out and that's what you don't ever change that habit or that attitude. I feel like you carry that to a lot of things throughout your life, your career. It has a certain impact.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (28:02.274)
Yeah, I agree. And where I see the irony in all these show is that with the whole overusing AI to make us look perfect or, or, you know, that person that we wanted to look maybe, and maybe the more perfect, you know, with a lot of filters and enhancement that it's your image becomes right. The more imperfect we really crave.

for us to be with one another. And that's what I see the whole irony of thing. We are overutilized and we want to look perfect, but at the same time, hey, maybe we should not. Maybe we should just tell me, bring you who you really are. And it's like I see this from both sides. Right?

Joe Fang (28:55.102)
I remember a while back I watched this video clip of a professional speaker. He's been on a lot of big stages. And he said one of the biggest obeisances that he's gotten was from making a mistake and owning it, right? He got on stage and then something happened. He forgot what he was gonna say. And he just kinda said, shit, like that. Forgot what I was gonna say, but I'm just gonna talk what I

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (29:04.654)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Fang (29:24.916)
honest, you know, what's on my mind right now, you know, but it instantly builds that trust that yes, because humans we make mistakes, we're not perfect. Right? Yes.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (29:34.28)
Exactly. And you came as authentic and that's where people appreciate more.

Joe Fang (29:38.707)
Yes, the people are just afraid of showing that they're not perfect or you know, um, I, get it because that that's why being in front of camera is scary. You don't know what to do. And then you're concerned about certain things about you, your looks like, I don't want to show this, you know, but you know, people are seeing it on daily basis. If we get your, if we get your expression, right, your energy, right. It shows that you're happy. You're in the moment. You're confident. I mean, that's what people are going to feel. Right.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (29:49.912)
Well.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (30:12.416)
And it's funny that you touched on that because I was thinking on getting there and asking you, what would be your advice to those people that by nature feel uncomfortable to be in front of the camera, right? Or being in the spotlight? Because at the end of the day, part of what you do is putting them into the spotlight and bring their stories in a way that maybe they never thought about themselves, right?

Joe Fang (30:39.888)
Yeah, I mean, I think it starts from my standpoint, it starts from just active listening, you know, hearing them out, you know, why are they doing their headshot? What do they want to achieve with that? Right? Make them make them understand the importance of putting themselves forward authentically. know, everything's going to start from within. They need to also understand their why. Right? Why do they care to have a headshot?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (31:14.259)
man, understanding our why is key and critical to everything. Yeah.

Joe Fang (31:19.094)
Everybody has different why is it good be you're doing it for your family. You're doing it for yourself You know you want to go on this amazing trip. You know you want to buy this you know Million dollar sports car that's your goal great. That's that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that Right if it pushes you forward if that's your fuel Okay, then what then you got to do everything in alignment. That's gonna get you to that goal and once you understand that then you

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (31:44.054)
Absolutely.

Joe Fang (31:48.951)
the process starts with your visual branding, know, online or in person, right? You don't show up to work in shorts and flip-flop, you know, maybe in Miami, I don't know. Yeah, but, you know, like in person, you're networking or you're going to work, you're dressing for a success. want, you're trying to create a, you know, an image, you know, how you want to be perceived by others. There's no different than that.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (31:59.278)
Yeah

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (32:26.328)
Yeah, agree. It's a must have it.

Joe Fang (32:27.122)
Yeah, so you got it starts from within, right? And you got to be able to, you know, just open up and say, yes, I'm going to do it for myself, you know, and of course, the photographer finding the right fit is so important. Somebody who cares enough to ask the questions to understand you versus you just pay them 200 bucks and they're there to click, click.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (32:40.11)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (32:47.65)
Yeah. Yeah. A big difference there. Both processes. It's...

Joe Fang (32:55.846)
Yeah, because you want to feel comfortable in the moment, right? If I, yeah, if it feels awkward, you're standing there as quiet crickets. You know, you're that awkward. Yeah. Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (33:06.412)
The end result will probably be that, right?

I agree. agree. All exciting, exciting stuff, And in times of moving into more and more on this future, that AI-generating content will continue to probably increase and taking over more and more. How do you see and what needs to happen for us to keep a human-first type of branding for what we do?

What are those things that you will be looking up to on the content side, on the overall branding side, image content? How do you see us being able to keep a human first?

Joe Fang (33:56.947)
That's a really interesting question. That's a tough one, Mikkel. I want to say... I think it's about the attitude of being a giver.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (34:10.466)
Hmm. Hmm.

Joe Fang (34:13.042)
Okay, putting others first, you know, how can you help others, whether it's through a certain action or the information you're putting out there, the introductions you're making, right? I think that's something that...

It's relationship based. I think that's something that AI is just not going to replicate. know, introductions, like, you know, you got to understand the why of the other person, for example, before you make the right introduction, you don't want to introduce somebody who's not the right fit. And you're certainly not going to have AI ask those questions and start, you know, sending out lists of 20 people in your contact to the one person

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (34:32.942)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (34:36.941)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (34:49.966)
Alright.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (35:19.726)
And understanding other people's energy, think that's a very, this is who we humans are. We understand each other energy. That's not something AI would ever understand, right? And human first branding for me as well, on top of what you just said, it's also understanding each other's energy. And really, what is it?

to what you were just saying, what is your why? And why are you doing what you are doing? The most important part of all things.

Joe Fang (35:59.112)
Yeah, 100%.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (36:02.458)
Yes, Joe. So let's see what's going to happen next. It's going to be interesting to see how everything continues to evolve.

Joe Fang (36:12.241)
Yeah, it is a whole new world for sure. But we're all part of it, we're in it together. I think it's what we really make out of it, how we carry ourselves, how we influence the people around us, right? Yeah, we're all part of it.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (36:29.089)
Mm-hmm

Absolutely, absolutely. And how also, just curious to see, what would be your advice, right, for those new professionals trying to start on this beautiful profession that is to be a photographer? What would you tell them, especially people that are young and new to it, that are just getting started with the whole...

AI movement and changes.

Joe Fang (37:06.257)
Yeah, it's really scary for a lot of the photographers. It is a challenge. It's a new barrier that we have to cross. It will weed out a lot of people. For those who are really trying to build something with this profession, I think it's really about humanizing the subject in front of you.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (37:29.474)
Yeah.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (37:53.43)
You made me think now because it's about humanizing, right? But for us that we're coming from different era in a way that we have been more connected to humans, for those new generations that are more attached to technology and probably to AI than what we were or using in a different way that was the way we were using it, how we can

continue to make sure that they embraced our humanity. And this is what I reckon with that. Sometimes I have a challenge trying to understand how we can keep this new generation as human as possible instead of over relying on the technology.

Joe Fang (38:47.239)
Yeah, think a lot of it, you me as a dad, I think a lot of it comes down to the family unit, you know, whether it's the parents, grandparents, whether it's the mentors, the teachers, you know, like teaching them the value of it early on, because that's our foundation. And we carry that through. Yeah, we carry that those values or lack of values through everything, you know, going forward as we grow and as we age, you know, so I think

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (38:58.071)
Hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (39:04.472)
That's the foundation.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (39:20.94)
Yeah, I agree. it's like every phase really has a story, right? Every human being has a story and every story has its own light. part of the beauty of highlighting each other's light is just finding what is it, who they are and getting to know their why.

Joe Fang (39:39.476)
Exactly like I don't want I want to teach my daughter or you know Just let her know that it's okay to be herself. She doesn't need to look like the influencer She doesn't need to be perfect for people to like her think that she's beautiful, right? You know find her own path Find who she figure out who she really is and enroll with it

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (40:00.472)
Hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (40:22.666)
Absolutely.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (40:29.034)
Interesting, interesting, Joe. And we're approaching the last segment of our conversation. It's usually one question, but for multiple groups of people that I want to get your inputs and how do you see that, right? So let's start with the first group, which is what would be your piece of advice for those people, human beings that haven't even started working with AI?

How do you see that? What would you advise to them?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (41:12.771)
Bye.

Being the driver seat, right? Absolutely. Always. Good, great advice. What about your piece of advice for those companies designing, implementing, releasing AI related products, especially in your industry or niche? Is there anything that you would like to see as far as products doing for you, keeping an eye on anything on that regard?

Joe Fang (41:45.48)
I mean, you know, certain adaptations of AIs as part of the process have certainly made the job of editing and that kind of stuff a lot more efficient and easier, less time consuming. So they're going to continue to perfect it. I don't know. I don't really have...

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (42:01.228)
Mm-hmm.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (42:17.336)
Got it. Got it. What would you tell to governments and policymakers on things that you would like to be paying more attention to AI overall, from safeguards and laws? Is there anything that you have in mind?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (42:49.143)
It's scary.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (43:03.052)
Yeah. It's getting hotter and hotter, my friend. Hotter and hotter.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (43:28.472)
Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (43:48.366)
place. I agree. I agree. And thank you, Joe, for that. And last but not least, what would you tell a younger version of Joe, meaning a young Joe going today, living today in this new era with AI? What would you tell him?

Joe Fang (44:10.027)
Um, you know, I think I would say that you bring something to the world, take the leap, dare to put yourself out there. Um, you know, you got one life to live, right? So live without regret. And if you truly believe in yourself, then do it and show it.

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (44:31.522)
Beautiful, beautiful. That's a great advice, not only for a younger Joe, but for all of us. Appreciate you sharing that with us today, Joe. And really thank you, right, for reminding us that even in the age of AI, the most powerful story we can tell is really our own. Thank you for your insights, your lens, and really your humility with us today. Appreciate you, okay?

THE HUMAN PROTOCOL PODCAST (45:00.93)
Yeah. And if today's episode sparks something in you, follow the human protocol, share this conversation with someone who values authenticity. And remember, being human is really your greatest brand asset. Thank you all. Talk to all next week. Take care.