Science Under Attack: Can We Rebuild Public Trust? | Pres., NY Academy of Sciences

Guest: Nicholas B. Dirks — NICHOLAS B. DIRKS is an internationally recognized historian, anthropologist, and leader in higher education. Well-known for his visionary views about the role of the university both in the US and globally, he has made major contributions in areas ranging from undergraduate education to advanced interdisciplinary research. He has written award winning books on subjects including the history of caste in India and the impact of imperial rule on British history and political theory. He has taught and had top leadership positions at UC Berkeley, Columbia University, the University of Michigan, and Caltech. In June 2020, Dirks assumed leadership of the New York Academy of Sciences (NYAS) as President and Chief Executive Officer. Founded in 1817, the New York Academy is among the oldest scientific organizations in the United States, having featured thinkers and innovators from all walks of life, including U.S. Presidents Jefferson and Monroe, Thomas Edison, Charles Darwin, Margaret Mead, and many more. Dirks managed the Academy through the pandemic, converting it for a time into a major source of information about pandemic related issues while stabilizing its finances and increasing its revenues. He has also focused the attention of the Academy on the social, cultural, and behavioral connections with science, launching new programs in neuroscience, translational science, pandemic and climate change preparedness, and artificial intelligence. Dirks is also a major public intellectual, commenting on issues ranging from the past and future of the American research university to the support and investment required for great science, as well as the ethical and social issues associated with artificial intelligence. He has written for The Atlantic, The New York Times, The Financial Times, The Chronicle of Higher Education, Time Magazine, Project Syndicate, among many others. Dirks has appeared on the BBC, NBC, and other major outlets, including numerous podcasts, and has spoken at Davos, the Aspen Ideas Festival, the Commonwealth Club, conferences hosted by The New York Times and The Washington Post, among many other venues. He also hosts a podcast of his own: Shaping Science with Nick Dirks. He has published six major books, edited three others, and written numerous essays, articles, and papers. His early books were on Indian history and anthropology as well as on the history of British empire. His last two books are City of Intellect: The Uses and Abuses of the University, and most recently, Worldly Knowledge: the Pasts and Futures of the Global Humanities, both published by Cambridge University Press. In November 2012 Dirks was named the 10th Chancellor of the University of California, Berkeley, where he is still a Professor of History in the Graduate School. During his time as Chancellor, he launched major initiatives in undergraduate education, Data Science, and arts and design. He invested in major research collaborations in neuroscience and genetic engineering, built a close working relationship with UCSF, and helped negotiate Berkeley’s participation in the $600m Chan Zuckerberg Biohub. Dirks worked to reform athletic admissions and improve the academic profile of student athletes. He also appointed the first senior advisor to the Chancellor to guide efforts to combat sexual violence and sexual harassment, and launched an African American initiative. Dirks revamped the development operation (Fundraising 2.0) and presided over record breaking fundraising efforts, while taking on unprecedented challenges around the financial health of the university, spearheading a campus wide discussion around strategic planning. Between 2004 and 2012, Dirks was the executive vice president for the arts and sciences and dean of the faculty at Columbia University, where he rebuilt departments and strengthened the faculty while launching a host of academic initiatives. The Franz Boas Professor of Anthropology and History, Dirks joined Columbia in 1997 as chair of the storied anthropology department. Dirks received his undergraduate and graduate degrees from Wesleyan University and the University of Chicago, respectively. He has held numerous fellowships and scholarships and received several scholarly honors, including a Guggenheim Fellowship, a MacArthur Foundation residential fellowship at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, and the Lionel Trilling Award for his book Castes of Mind. He is a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and has served on numerous national and international bodies while receiving honorary degrees in Beijing, China, and Chennai, India. He is a Senior Member of the Council on Foreign Relations and serves on numerous boards and advisory committees.

When trust in science declines, society doesn't become freer. It becomes more fragile. In this episode of The Human Protocol, host Mykel Salomon sits down with Nicholas B. Dirks, President & CEO of the New York Academy of Sciences and former Chancellor of UC Berkeley, to examine why public confidence in science and expertise has eroded, and what it will take to rebuild it. From the long American history of skepticism toward science to the communication breakdowns of the COVID era, the rise of AI-fueled misinformation, and the real-world fallout of frozen research funding, Dirks makes the case that science is not a fixed set of truths but a deeply human process of discovery, one that earns trust through humility, transparency, and connection rather than dogma.

Conversation Summary

In this episode of The Human Protocol Podcast, Nicholas B. Dirks, President and CEO of the New York Academy of Sciences, delves into the erosion of public trust in science and explores pathways to rebuild it. The conversation highlights historical cycles of skepticism towards science in America, with contemporary challenges exacerbated by COVID-19 and AI-induced misinformation. Dirks emphasizes a shift from viewing science as a set of fixed truths to understanding it as a dynamic process of discovery. The dialogue revolves around the necessity of transparent communication, the critical role of public funding, and the importance of maintaining an open, internationally collaborative scientific community.

Distrust in science is cyclical and historical.

Nicholas Dirks outlines how distrust in science resurfaces roughly every 20-30 years, pointing to historical events like the Scopes Trial as reminders. These recurring cycles are driven by fear of change that scientific discoveries often bring and the political exploitation of this fear.

COVID-19 response highlighted communication flaws in science.

The pandemic exposed issues in how scientific information was communicated, with messages constantly shifting as new data emerged. Dirks argues that communicating the uncertainty and ongoing nature of scientific discovery can build more trust than presenting scientific conclusions as fixed truths.

AI accelerates misinformation alongside breakthroughs.

While AI promises to revolutionize scientific discovery, it also facilitates the spread of misinformation, making critical evaluations of sources and credibility more challenging. Dirks stresses the importance of this dual-edged nature of AI in complicating the landscape of information and trust.

Science needs sustained funding to thrive.

The freezing of thousands of NIH and NSF grants signals a troubling trend that risks stalling scientific progress. Dirks warns that diminished public funding threatens to discourage a new generation of scientists and that past scientific breakthroughs underscore the critical role of federal support.

Recognizing science as a collaborative, international process.

Science transcends borders, with international collaboration being vital to global scientific progress. Dirks underscores the value of scientists from diverse nations working together, highlighting open science and shared resources as catalysts for innovation and problem-solving.

Final Thoughts

The conversation with Nicholas Dirks reinforces the idea that rebuilding trust in science requires understanding it as an adaptive process rather than an infallible authority. This involves improving communication strategies, ensuring continuous funding, and fostering international collaboration. Embracing science as a human endeavor, characterized by curiosity and humility, is crucial in addressing both present and future scientific challenges.

Key Takeaways

Frequently Asked Questions

How can we improve public trust in science?

Improving public trust involves communicating science as a process of discovery rather than a set of fixed truths. Transparency about uncertainties and involving the public in ongoing scientific narratives can build stronger connections and trust.

Why does distrust in science resurface periodically?

Distrust often resurfaces due to fear and misunderstanding of scientific advances, historically amplified by political dynamics. These cycles reflect broader skepticism towards expertise, seen throughout American history.

How does AI contribute to misinformation?

AI accelerates the spread and authenticity of misinformation by creating realistic deep fakes and generating false information, complicating the public's ability to discern credible sources.

What is the impact of cutting research funding?

Cuts in research funding risk stalling scientific progress and discourage young scientists from entering or staying in the field, as evidenced by recent frozen NIH and NSF grants.

Why is international collaboration in science crucial?

International collaboration is crucial as it enhances the quality and pace of scientific discovery. Sharing knowledge and resources across borders leads to more robust and innovative solutions to global challenges.